ADMISSION: JW Beliefs Don't Come From The Bible

[imJRR]

The JW masters themselves have officially admitted that a person cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.
The admission means that JW beliefs are man-made up.

For once, the JW masters have actually written something that is TRUE - You can't arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading you do. THEY say so.

 

[keiw]

The JW masters themselves have officially admitted that a person cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.
The admission means that JW beliefs are man-made up.

For once, the JW masters have actually written something that is TRUE - You can't arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading you do. THEY say so.

Actually they said--no one can understand the bible no matter how much they read it. They can understand the milk, but cannot understand the meat without being taught by these-Matt 24:45)--
Why do you think the trinity based religions are such a mass of confusion? You see Jesus promised his real teachers that he would send holy spirit to guide them into ALL truth. Each trinity religion because of a lack of holy spirit all have different truths. The bible clearly shows this true mark of his 1 religion=1Cor 1:10--Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division--they cant even understand that simple statement-no division-they are a house divided, they will not stand.

 

[Black Jack]

The JW masters themselves have officially admitted that a person cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.
The admission means that JW beliefs are man-made up.

For once, the JW masters have actually written something that is TRUE - You can't arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading you do. THEY say so.

This is alarming. The JW will simple say that it means we need help understanding it or learning it. That will be their rebuttal to that.

 

[keiw]

This is alarming. The JW will simple say that it means we need help understanding it or learning it. That will be their rebuttal to that.

None can understand the deep things without being taught.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings keiw,

Actually they said--no one can understand the bible no matter how much they read it. They can understand the milk, but cannot understand the meat without being taught by these-Matt 24:45)--

None can understand the deep things without being taught.

What is the official JW position or your own assessment if different.

We know that the Apostles were inspired and taught the deep things of God. They also wrote down much of what they taught, and from my perspective this leaves the door open for someone to gradually meditate on the written Word and be lead by God to a proper understanding, and my opinion is also that the direct infusion of the Holy Spirit in this situation is NOT necessary.

My general assessment of the JWs is that Judge Rutherford was a major influence in establishing the present JW teachings, followed by various Elders who have added or modified some of the teachings, resulting in the present reasonably stable and established beliefs of the JWs.

Getting back to the question: Do the JWs state when there were NO Holy Spirit Elders in the period from the death of the last of the Apostles to the establishment of the JWs, say to the start of Judge Rutherford? Has any one in this period of time have an understanding of "the deep things?", or was it a period of almost complete darkness?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Black Jack]

None can understand the deep things without being taught.

Besides taking there word for it, is there any spiritual evidence or prophesies saying that the governing body should be blessed over the bible?

 

[keiw]

Greetings keiw,


What is the official JW position or your own assessment if different.

We know that the Apostles were inspired and taught the deep things of God. They also wrote down much of what they taught, and from my perspective this leaves the door open for someone to gradually meditate on the written Word and be lead by God to a proper understanding, and my opinion is also that the direct infusion of the Holy Spirit in this situation is NOT necessary.

My general assessment of the JWs is that Judge Rutherford was a major influence in establishing the present JW teachings, followed by various Elders who have added or modified some of the teachings, resulting in the present reasonably stable and established beliefs of the JWs.

Getting back to the question: Do the JWs state when there were NO Holy Spirit Elders in the period from the death of the last of the Apostles to the establishment of the JWs, say to the start of Judge Rutherford? Has any one in this period of time have an understanding of "the deep things?", or was it a period of almost complete darkness?

Kind regards
Trevor

The apostles knew nothing of revelation. Does any trinity religion understand the difference from the little flock( Luke 12:32) and great crowd( Rev 7:9) of other sheep who are not of that fold?( John 10:16)
Not complete darkness. Much of the bible is understood when read. But some teachings are only partial truths that fit with other teachings then becomes a whole truth. Like the bible teaches those that believe on Jesus will be saved-Yet at Matt 7:22-23 these believe but will hear those words as judgement. Believing goes along with other teachings that make it a whole truth.

 

[keiw]

Besides taking there word for it, is there any spiritual evidence or prophesies saying that the governing body should be blessed over the bible?

The teachings of Jesus in every translation on earth back the JW,s. As does true God worship history.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings keiw,

The apostles knew nothing of revelation.

I am not sure what you are suggesting here. The Apostles knew everything about God's revelation. They also had the Holy Spirit in FULL measure.

Does any trinity religion understand the difference from the little flock( Luke 12:32) and great crowd( Rev 7:9) of other sheep who are not of that fold?( John 10:16)

The JW distinction between two groups of JWs, one group the 144,000, is not what those verses teach. All the OT and NT faithful will be gathered to rule with Christ as king / priests when Jesus returns to the earth to establish His Kingdom, centred in Jerusalem.

Not complete darkness. Much of the bible is understood when read. But some teachings are only partial truths that fit with other teachings then becomes a whole truth. Like the bible teaches those that believe on Jesus will be saved-Yet at Matt 7:22-23 these believe but will hear those words as judgement. Believing goes along with other teachings that make it a whole truth.

The following verses are not speaking about the GB of the JWs. It is speaking about every believer's responsibility to learn and share the Gospel and the way of life in Christ.
Matthew 24:45–47 (KJV): 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[keiw]

Greetings keiw,

I am not sure what you are suggesting here. The Apostles knew everything about God's revelation. They also had the Holy Spirit in FULL measure.

The JW distinction between two groups of JWs, one group the 144,000, is not what those verses teach. All the OT and NT faithful will be gathered to rule with Christ as king / priests when Jesus returns to the earth to establish His Kingdom, centred in Jerusalem.

The following verses are not speaking about the GB of the JWs. It is speaking about every believer's responsibility to learn and share the Gospel and the way of life in Christ.
Matthew 24:45–47 (KJV): 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Kind regards
Trevor

Revelation wasn't written until 96 ce. The apostles were dead.
Jesus' Goods are his flock. Thus the faithful slave are the ones taking the lead( teachers)
No Jesus does not need billions of kings and priests sitting on thrones. The kingdom( throne) is in heaven. Rev 20:2 is the bride of Christ actually-the 144,000. God and Jesus remain in heaven to rule--Rev 20:3--a tent is like a protective cover--that is what it is saying.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again keiw,

Revelation wasn't written until 96 ce. The apostles were dead.

You used the word "revelation". The Apostle John received the Book of Revelation also known as the Apocalypse.

Jesus' Goods are his flock. Thus the faithful slave are the ones taking the lead( teachers)

There are some that are teachers, and others that administer in other fields. There is no evidence of the JW subdivision, and surprisingly JWs claim that NONE of the OT will be with Jesus.

No Jesus does not need billions of kings and priests sitting on thrones. The kingdom( throne) is in heaven. Rev 20:2 is the bride of Christ actually-the 144,000. God and Jesus remain in heaven to rule--Rev 20:3--a tent is like a protective cover--that is what it is saying.

How do you understand the following?
Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 1:10–11 (KJV): 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

2 Timothy 4:1–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Black Jack]

Mistake

 

[Black Jack]

The teachings of Jesus in every translation on earth back the JW,s. As does true God worship history.

I meant:

Besides taking there word for it, is there any spiritual evidence or prophesies saying that the governing body should be obeyed and followed over the bible?

 

[keiw]

Greetings again keiw,

You used the word "revelation". The Apostle John received the Book of Revelation also known as the Apocalypse.

There are some that are teachers, and others that administer in other fields. There is no evidence of the JW subdivision, and surprisingly JWs claim that NONE of the OT will be with Jesus.

How do you understand the following?
Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 1:10–11 (KJV): 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

2 Timothy 4:1–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

The JW,s are correct. Many blind guides teach Elijah went to Gods dwelling place-Why? Because they reside in darkness. None entered heaven( Gods dwelling place) prior to Jesus. John 3:13)-- Elijah was brought through our atmosphere( heaven) in that chariot, and retired to another place on earth. He wrote a letter to the king 10 years after that chariot event- 2Chron 21:12-15

I meant:

Besides taking there word for it, is there any spiritual evidence or prophesies saying that the governing body should be obeyed and followed over the bible?

They teach 100% of the bible. Its hard to realize that when one is mislead out of altered translations. One of the biggest atrocities in all creation was the removal of Gods name in over 7000 spots. Where God put it because he wants it there. Done by satans will to mislead. All religions using those altered translations are being mislead.

 

[imJRR]

Not surprisingly - All of your post above contradict the open admission of your JW masters, keiw:

A person cannot and will not ever arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible. There's no honest way for it to mean anything else. JW beliefs are man-made up.
It also means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
It is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.

All your posts have done is run away from this admission and what it means.
NO surprise at all.

 

[keiw]

Not surprisingly - All of your post above contradict the open admission of your JW masters, keiw:

A person cannot and will not ever arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible. There's no honest way for it to mean anything else. JW beliefs are man-made up.
It also means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
It is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.

All your posts have done is run away from this admission and what it means.
NO surprise at all.

Not one on earth understands Gods bible without being taught by these-Matt 24:45-- They can understand milk, but not the deep things. That is why there is so much confusion in the religions claiming to belong to Jesus. The JW,s are Matt 24:45-0 doubt.-1Cor 1:10-unified in thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division--trinity religions are divided to the core, causing all the confusion.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The JW masters themselves have officially admitted that a person cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading they do.
“Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness,” (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1990, p. 19).

This admission means that JW beliefs don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing.
The admission means that JW beliefs are man-made up.

For once, the JW masters have actually written something that is TRUE - You can't arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible, no matter how much Bible reading you do. THEY say so.

Christians in general hold a lot of beliefs that aren't in the Bible including evolution, rock and roll is Satanic, and abortion is a sin. Jehovah's Witnesses then are not unique in regard to holding non-Biblical beliefs. Besides, many of their beliefs do come from the Bible.

 

[imJRR]

Christians in general hold a lot of beliefs that aren't in the Bible including evolution, rock and roll is Satanic, and abortion is a sin. Jehovah's Witnesses then are not unique in regard to holding non-Biblical beliefs. Besides, many of their beliefs do come from the Bible.

I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong in the above. Read the quote - the ENTIRE quote. It is both an official admission and a declaration by the JW "leaders": You cannot and will not ever arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible no matter how much Bible reading you do. You will never arrive at what JWs falsely call "the truth" about God and what He's like and His purposes, you will never arrive at what JWs falsely call "the truth" about Christ, and the list goes on.

This admission means that JW beliefs and teachings don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing when it comes to JW beliefs.

 

[keiw]

Christians in general hold a lot of beliefs that aren't in the Bible including evolution, rock and roll is Satanic, and abortion is a sin. Jehovah's Witnesses then are not unique in regard to holding non-Biblical beliefs. Besides, many of their beliefs do come from the Bible.

There isn't a mortal living that can understand the deep things in Gods written word without being taught by these-Matt 24:45) Its why in light of 1 Cor 1:10= Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth)-no division=1 religion, not many named religions. Confusion and a lack of holy spirit by 99% of all the religions claiming to be christian has caused the mass of confusion and division. Jesus is with 1 religion=JW,s.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong in the above. Read the quote - the ENTIRE quote. It is both an official admission and a declaration by the JW "leaders": You cannot and will not ever arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible no matter how much Bible reading you do. You will never arrive at what JWs falsely call "the truth" about God and what He's like and His purposes, you will never arrive at what JWs falsely call "the truth" about Christ, and the list goes on.

This admission means that JW beliefs and teachings don't come from the Bible.
This means that whenever any JW tries to use the Bible to prove JW beliefs, he/she is trying to do something the JW masters have stated cannot be done.
So, it is the JW masters themselves who invalidate Bible referencing when it comes to JW beliefs.

I see nothing in that quotation in the OP that states or implies that the JWs don't get their beliefs from the Bible. It says that you cannot arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible. Obviously many people read the Bible without necessarily arriving at their sect's beliefs. I checked the context of that quotation, and here it is from the article How Can We Respond Unselfishly to God’s Love?:

We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah’s visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47) Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. We would not have discovered the truth regarding Jehovah, his purposes and attributes, the meaning and importance of his name, the Kingdom, Jesus’ ransom, the difference between God’s organization and Satan’s, nor why God has permitted wickedness. It is just as the Watch Tower Society’s first president, Charles Taze Russell, wrote in 1914: “Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If any one knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us. We know of nothing better nor half as good as what we have found in the Word of God. . . . No tongue or pen can tell the peace, the joy and the blessing which a clear knowledge of the true God has brought into our heart and life. The Story of God’s Wisdom, Justice, Power and Love fully satisfies the cravings of both our head and our heart. We are seeking no further. There is nothing more to be desired than to get this wonderful Story more clearly before our mind.” (The Watch Tower, December 15, 1914, pages 377-8) How true those well-penned words!

So we see that the JWs are saying that you need the Watchtower to arrive at the beliefs of the JWs and not that they don't get their beliefs from the Bible.