Alive (regenerated) but Dead (in sins): the Living Dead.

[Theophilus]

The Law is the ministry of death. I don't think you have any idea what I believe about the law in regards to the believers life. The law is like an x-ray, it will tell you what is wrong with you, but it wont do anything to fix you.

All you do is misrepresent people. Why not ask them what they believe instead of creating strawman? I am not a Jew, I am not under the law or in bondage. I am free born.

I’m a Gentile not under the law. You can have it all .

 

[preacher4truth]

The Law is the ministry of death. I don't think you have any idea what I believe about the law in regards to the believers life. The law is like an x-ray, it will tell you what is wrong with you, but it wont do anything to fix you.

All you do is misrepresent people. Why not ask them what they believe instead of creating strawman? I am not a Jew, I am not under the law or in bondage. I am free born

The old sow discord, falsely accuse, cause strife, cause division to ad nauseam and always from the same source. Good answer to him brother, remember Matthew 7:6.

???????? gonna keep bearing their fruit, stay true to the LORD!

 

[preacher4truth]

I’m a Gentile not under the law. You can have it all .

Sounds like antinomianism.

Matthew 7:23 deals with antinomianism, literally "workers of lawlessness*."

*anomia

Thayer Definition:

1. the condition of without law
   1. because ignorant of it
   2. because of violating it
2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Theophilus]

Sounds like antinomianism.

Matthew 7:23 deals with antinomianism, literally "workers of lawlessness*."

*anomia

Thayer Definition:

1. the condition of without law
   1. because ignorant of it
   2. because of violating it
2. contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Are you a Jew ?

I’m a Gentile. Try reading and believing Gods word spoken through Paul the apostle to the Gentiles .

 

[eternomade]

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[preacher4truth]

Are you a Jew ?

Are you a Christian, nick?

 

[Theo1689]

Dont know why you are quoting from the old covenant as we are not under it

... from the same guy who loves to quote from Num. 21:7-9.
Double standards much?

 

[preacher4truth]

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yep. They even cause division between Jew and Gentile, building back the wall that Christ took down; Ephesians 2:14. It doesn't matter what you say, they will find a way to cause strife, discord, division...it's why Matthew 7:6 was written, it is because of their reactions.

 

[eternomade]

Yep. They even cause division between Jew and Gentile, building back the wall that Christ took down; Ephesians 2:14. It doesn't matter what you say, they will find a way to cause strife, discord, division...it's why Matthew 7:6 was written, it is because of their reactions.

I'm just posting Scripture eh lol. Good reminders for myself.

John 8
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Galatians 3
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[fltom]

... from the same guy who loves to quote from Num. 21:7-9.
Double standards much?

what you miss is Christ used it as a comparison

John 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

 

[fltom]

There are two ways to interpret "πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ", either as "objective genitive" ("faith in Jesus Christ"), or "subjective genitive" ("faithfulness of Jesus Christ").

Greek scholar A.T. Robertson interprets it as the objective genitive, as do the scholars behind the ESV, NASB, NIV, HCSB, and Dr. Bill Mounce.

Dr. Dan Wallace uses it as an example of the subjective genitive in his Greek grammar, and this is reflected in the NET. However, the NET has the following textual note, which notes the plausible alternate understanding:

"Or “faith in Jesus Christ.” A decision is difficult here. Though traditionally translated “faith in Jesus Christ,” an increasing number of NT scholars are arguing that πίστις Χριστοῦ (pistis Christou) and similar phrases in Paul (here and in v. 20; Rom 3:22, 26; Gal 3:22; Eph 3:12; Phil 3:9) involve a subjective genitive and mean “Christ’s faith” or “Christ’s faithfulness” (cf., e.g., G. Howard, “The ‘Faith of Christ’,” ExpTim 85 [1974]: 212-15; R. B. Hays, The Faith of Jesus Christ [SBLDS]; Morna D. Hooker, “Πίστις Χριστοῦ,” NTS 35 [1989]: 321-42). Noteworthy among the arguments for the subjective genitive view is that when πίστις takes a personal genitive it is almost never an objective genitive (cf. Matt 9:2, 22, 29; Mark 2:5; 5:34; 10:52; Luke 5:20; 7:50; 8:25, 48; 17:19; 18:42; 22:32; Rom 1:8; 12; 3:3; 4:5, 12, 16; 1 Cor 2:5; 15:14, 17; 2 Cor 10:15; Phil 2:17; Col 1:4; 2:5; 1 Thess 1:8; 3:2, 5, 10; 2 Thess 1:3; Titus 1:1; Phlm 6; 1 Pet 1:9, 21; 2 Pet 1:5). On the other hand, the objective genitive view has its adherents: A. Hultgren, “The Pistis Christou Formulations in Paul,” NovT 22 (1980): 248-63; J. D. G. Dunn, “Once More, ΠΙΣΤΙΣ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ,” SBL Seminar Papers, 1991, 730-44. Most commentaries on Romans and Galatians usually side with the objective view."

As I said, the issue is not nearly as cut-and-dry as many wish to think.

You believe wrong

Just because you expounded on something does not mean you taught someone something

the faith of Abraham is a subjective genitive

and this passage shows

Galatians 2:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

we are justified by believing in Christ

perhaps you missed that reply to your post

 

[Synergy]

Comprehension problem. You are done with me if I choose not to trade posts with you until you start addressing the problems first broached 200+ posts ago. It's not speaking for you, it's speaking to you, which is just ironic given the abject failure to correctly discriminate between "by" and "through." The breakdown occurred with the open refusal to limit the list to those specific conditions by which we are justified. I simply choose not to trade posts with people claiming to be Christians who openly refuse to stand first on what is plainly stated.

Your aversion to the word "through" (διὰ) is poorly thought out and lame when you stop and consider the fact that many verses use the word "through" in phrase like "through Jesus Christ" (Rom 6:11,23; 2Cor 5:18; Titus 3:6; etc...)

WE are done, Syn, because there's no we without the both of us.
You are with me.
Says the one openly refusing to list the conditions by which we are justified and only those conditions. Case in point:
Only four of those are stated in scripture. The other five are "throughs," not "bys," and have of them are implied, not stated (inferential readings, not explicit statement).

Here are the Justification verses you are running away from. They all clearly show man's part for God's Justification of him:

(Gal 2:16) knowing that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but through faith in Jesus Christ; even we believed in Jesus Christ,
that we might be justified by the faith in Christ, and not by works of the Law. For all flesh will not be justified by works of law.
(Rom 4:5) But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Matt 12:37) For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.
(Luke 18:13) And standing afar off, the tax-collector would not even lift up his eyes to Heaven, but struck on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner!
(Luke 18:14) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself shall be abased, and he who humbles himself shall be exalted. (Luk 18:14)
(Act 13:39) And by Him all who believe are justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses.
(Rom 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
(James 2:24) You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Post #148 is a response, but it's not a response that addresses the particular concerns of 139. You agreed to a bunch of stuff and questioned a few more things but did not in any way address the fact grace and blood precede, pervade, and transcend both regeneration and justification.

I already addressed God's Grace and Christ's Blood back in Post #335, in that we are justified freely by His Grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, His blood, the forgiveness of one’s sins (Rom 3:24, Eph 1:7). And forgiveness of sins is possible only if we repent and believe “in Christ” (Acts 2:38, John 8:24, 1 John 1:9).

(Rom 3:24) being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

(Eph 1:7) In Him we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

(Acts 2:38) Then Peter said to them, Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ to remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

(1 John 1:9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You have yet to offer any counterargument to those verses.

Nor was the matter of flesh versus spirit addressed. You agreed with my post but failed to address the problem! The moment I got agreement on those things the op was refuted.

The OP focuses only on death by sin and on life by regeneration so your strawman attempt to divert the OP to flesh went up in a blaze of fire.

In fact, death because of sin occurs in the domain of the entire person, not just in his flesh.

(John 8:24) Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

The moment the justification of the OT saints was acknowledged the op was refutded.

Actually, you're the one refuted when you claimed the following about Luke 18:13-14:

Furthermore, the humble Jew in Luke 18:13-14 is not a Christian. There is nothing in the text indicating he believes Jesus is the resurrected Son of God who's paid for his sins.

And I said the following to refute you: Abraham was not a Christian when he was deemed justified by his faith. Why are you advocating one standard for Abraham and another standard for the humble Jew?

There is no gap between apples and oranges.
The facts in evidence prove otherwise. These matters were not addressed. Twenty pages is plenty of time, especially after so many requests to get back to those matters and an open refusal to do so.

It is proven once again, across multiple pages, that the regeneration before justification doctrine does contain a time gap where one is regenerated (spiritually alive) but not yet justified (dead in sins), a situation that the Bible does not support.

There is no gap between apples and oranges, especially since they are both fruit.

You can stick with your fruits, I'll abide with the Bible.