Theo1689
Well-known member
I was cleaning up my hard drive yesterday, and found a document that I was working on which addressed the meaning of "all men" in Scripture. As mentioned in my other thread from today, if one wants to convince another of a particular meaning of a Scripture, then they must acknowledge other possible meanings, and give compelling reasons why the alternative meaning is not the correct meaning. If one cannot do this to the satisfaction of all parties, then this destroys the verse as a "proof-text", as you are reduced to "special pleading", and saying, "This verse means what *I* say it does, because I said so."
I'm going to list a number of sources which disagree with the non-Calvinist interpretation of passages containing "world" and "all men". This is not an "appeal to authority", because I'm not arguing that what they say is true "because I say so".
The point here is there are a number of scholars who hold the view, making it a valid one which needs to be addressed with something more substantial than an empty, "nuh-Huh".
"Because of this ambiguity, scribes may have added a sigma to παντα. In either case, it seems that Jesus had people in mind when he spoke of drawing all to himself by being lifted up on the cross. Of course, this drawing could suggest a kind of universal reconciliation of all things, as in Col 1:20. But the major focus of the metaphor in context is that Jesus would attract all kinds of people (Jews and Gentiles) to himself by his death on the cross and subsequent glorification."
-- Philip Comfort
"The magnetism of the Cross is now known of all men, however little they understand the mystery of the Cross. By “all men” (pantas) Jesus does not mean every individual man, for some, as Simeon said (Luke 2:34) are repelled by Christ, but this is the way that Greeks (verse 22) can and will come to Christ, by the way of the Cross, the only way to the Father (14:6)."
-- A.T. Robertson
"All men. I will incline all kinds of men; or will make the way open by the cross,"
-- Albert Barnes
I will draw all men—Gentiles as well as Jews.
-- John Wesley
"Jesus said that at the cross He would draw all men to Himself. He did not mean everybody will be saved for He made it clear that some will be lost (John 5:28-29). If the drawing by the Son is the same as that of the Father (6:44), it means He will draw indiscriminately. Those saved will include not only Jews, but also those from every tribe, language, people, and nation."
-- Bible Knowledge Commentary
"I will draw all men to myself. The word all, which he employs, must be understood to refer to the children of God, who belong to his flock. Yet I agree with Chrysostom, who says that Christ used the universal term, all, because the Church was to be gathered equally from among Gentiles and Jews, according to that saying, 'There shall be one shepherd, and one sheepfold,' (John 10:16.)"
-- John Calvin
"John 12:32. If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me. Lifted up, first, to the cross; second, from the grave; third, to heaven and the eternal throne. The crucified, risen and exalted Savior becomes a power to draw all men, Jews and Gentiles, all nations. Christ does not declare that he will draw every individual, but all races. The great thought is the power of his death and resurrection."
-- Barton W. Johnson
"Verse 32. I-will draw all men unto me. After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles."
-- Adam Clarke
"Some witnesses read πάντα (𝔓66 ℵ* D it vg al), which could mean “the whole creation,” although the neut. can refer to persons alone (e.g., 6:39–40; 17:24; BDF §138 [1]). The preferred rdg. πάντας (UBS5) refers to all, Gentiles (10:16; 11:52) as well as Jews, without distinction, and every type of person rather than everyone without exception."
-- Murray J. Harr
So it is insufficient to simply make the empty claim, "World means every single individual", or "all men means every single individual". You have to make a VALID argument, not simply assume it.
And you have to be VERY careful not to twist the words of others to try to force them to agree with you. But I know a few here (by name) who will do EXACTLY that, and refuse to let scholars speak for themselves.
I'm going to list a number of sources which disagree with the non-Calvinist interpretation of passages containing "world" and "all men". This is not an "appeal to authority", because I'm not arguing that what they say is true "because I say so".
The point here is there are a number of scholars who hold the view, making it a valid one which needs to be addressed with something more substantial than an empty, "nuh-Huh".
"Because of this ambiguity, scribes may have added a sigma to παντα. In either case, it seems that Jesus had people in mind when he spoke of drawing all to himself by being lifted up on the cross. Of course, this drawing could suggest a kind of universal reconciliation of all things, as in Col 1:20. But the major focus of the metaphor in context is that Jesus would attract all kinds of people (Jews and Gentiles) to himself by his death on the cross and subsequent glorification."
-- Philip Comfort
"The magnetism of the Cross is now known of all men, however little they understand the mystery of the Cross. By “all men” (pantas) Jesus does not mean every individual man, for some, as Simeon said (Luke 2:34) are repelled by Christ, but this is the way that Greeks (verse 22) can and will come to Christ, by the way of the Cross, the only way to the Father (14:6)."
-- A.T. Robertson
"All men. I will incline all kinds of men; or will make the way open by the cross,"
-- Albert Barnes
I will draw all men—Gentiles as well as Jews.
-- John Wesley
"Jesus said that at the cross He would draw all men to Himself. He did not mean everybody will be saved for He made it clear that some will be lost (John 5:28-29). If the drawing by the Son is the same as that of the Father (6:44), it means He will draw indiscriminately. Those saved will include not only Jews, but also those from every tribe, language, people, and nation."
-- Bible Knowledge Commentary
"I will draw all men to myself. The word all, which he employs, must be understood to refer to the children of God, who belong to his flock. Yet I agree with Chrysostom, who says that Christ used the universal term, all, because the Church was to be gathered equally from among Gentiles and Jews, according to that saying, 'There shall be one shepherd, and one sheepfold,' (John 10:16.)"
-- John Calvin
"John 12:32. If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me. Lifted up, first, to the cross; second, from the grave; third, to heaven and the eternal throne. The crucified, risen and exalted Savior becomes a power to draw all men, Jews and Gentiles, all nations. Christ does not declare that he will draw every individual, but all races. The great thought is the power of his death and resurrection."
-- Barton W. Johnson
"Verse 32. I-will draw all men unto me. After I shall have died and risen again, by the preaching of my word and the influence of my Spirit, I shall attract and illuminate both Jews and Gentiles."
-- Adam Clarke
"Some witnesses read πάντα (𝔓66 ℵ* D it vg al), which could mean “the whole creation,” although the neut. can refer to persons alone (e.g., 6:39–40; 17:24; BDF §138 [1]). The preferred rdg. πάντας (UBS5) refers to all, Gentiles (10:16; 11:52) as well as Jews, without distinction, and every type of person rather than everyone without exception."
-- Murray J. Harr
So it is insufficient to simply make the empty claim, "World means every single individual", or "all men means every single individual". You have to make a VALID argument, not simply assume it.
And you have to be VERY careful not to twist the words of others to try to force them to agree with you. But I know a few here (by name) who will do EXACTLY that, and refuse to let scholars speak for themselves.
