Allah is the God of the Bible -- say orthodox Jewish Rabbis.

sk0rpi0n

Member

This video is a collection of clips showing some Orthodox Jewish Rabbis speak about Islam. They state their view that Allah (swt), the God of the Muslims is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- the God of the Bible that was worshiped by the Israelites -- and that Jews and Muslims worship the same God.

I'm not saying Jews agree with Islam 100% but only that Jews in general acknowledge Allah as the God of Abraham.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
(perhaps Ruda, as identified by Macdonald in North Arabian in the First Millennium BC, 1360), and a sky goddess know as Allat. (Herodotus III,3.) Later Allat became referred to in the masculine form as Allah)"

They cooked up a sun god, Ra and others until Mohammad. They don't have a genealogy from Ishmael till Mohammad.
 
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Bob Carabbio

Well-known member

This video is a collection of clips showing some Orthodox Jewish Rabbis speak about Islam. They state their view that Allah (swt), the God of the Muslims is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- the God of the Bible that was worshiped by the Israelites -- and that Jews and Muslims worship the same God.

I'm not saying Jews agree with Islam 100% but only that Jews in general acknowledge Allah as the God of Abraham.
And they share the same problem. NO SAVIOR, no salvation. Jews deny that Jesus was the Messiah, and ISLAM claims that Jesus DIDN'T DIE on the Cross as our Sin Offering (Isa 53). So both false religions can only doom their victims to HELL.
 

SteveB

Well-known member

This video is a collection of clips showing some Orthodox Jewish Rabbis speak about Islam. They state their view that Allah (swt), the God of the Muslims is the same as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- the God of the Bible that was worshiped by the Israelites -- and that Jews and Muslims worship the same God.

I'm not saying Jews agree with Islam 100% but only that Jews in general acknowledge Allah as the God of Abraham.
Well, if that's true, Allah is seriously schizophrenic.

He tells muslims not to make friends with Christians, and then kill infidels, while telling them to keep the teachings of Jesus, who said to love our enemies.
The problem here is that the bible makes it clear that YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of Jesus and christianity.
So, if you actually want us to believe this, you'd better get your more radical Islamists to stop killing Israelis and Christians.
 

sk0rpi0n

Member
The problem here is that the bible makes it clear that YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of Jesus and christianity.

Yeah, and religious Jews who've had the Bible for longer than Christians say Allah is the God of Abraham, as shown in the video.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Yeah, and religious Jews who've had the Bible for longer than Christians say Allah is the God of Abraham, as shown in the video.
As I said...

Seriously schizophrenic.

YHVH is not schizophrenic. Allah may well be. YHVH is not.

As has been previously established, Allah doesn't have a Son.
YHVH does have a Son.

YHVH chose Abraham, Isaac, and Israel through whom he'd bless the world.

He's promised to remain faithful to his covenant with Israel, no matter what.

And here we are, Palestinian government officials, and radical Islamists are murdering Israelis, Christians, muslims and normal everyday people who are just out living their lives.

And we read that Jesus said that there would come a time when people would kill his followers, thinking that they were doing YHVH a favor. What strikes me is the following statement: they're doing this because they don't know my Father, nor me! John 16.



So, I have a problem with this idea.
YHVH is not Allah, nor is Allah YHVH.
If they are the same, Allah is seriously schizophrenic.
 

cjab

Active member
Whoever Allah is, or isn't, is largely irrelevant, as Islam purports to worship Mahomet and not the (to muslims) unknowable Allah who never manifested himself apart from by Mahomet. Mahomet is not the "prophet of Islam," (such is a parody of the Old Testament idea of a prophet) but a ba'al deity. Mahomet is god, or rather ba'al, where Allah's only function is to legitimize Mahomet as his de facto usurper, just as Ba'al usurped the role of El in the Canaanite pantheon.

Moreover the Allah of Mahomet cannot by the same as the God of Moses, because he doesn't share the same characteristics. E.g. he is said to allow divorce be women and recommend crusades against the infidel unbelievers, including the Jews. The Jewish God doesn't allow for divorce by women or have the many pagan characteristics that Mahomet proclaims of Allah, such as spreading Judaism by the sword.

I think all these guys are trying to say is that the unitary God of Abraham is the real God, per Jhn 8:39, as opposed to the 3 x hypostases God of Roman Christianity. They are saying that whoever claims to worship the God of Abraham is to be credited. Well, is that so?

It was not Jesus' message in Jhn 8:39. He distinguishes between the God that people say they acknowledge and the God/god that they really acknowledge: a notion these rabbais don't yet seem to grasp.
 
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Tiburon

Well-known member
Whoever Allah is, or isn't, is largely irrelevant, as Islam purports to worship Mahomet and not the (to muslims) unknowable Allah who never manifested himself apart from by Mahomet. Mahomet is not the "prophet of Islam," (such is a parody of the Old Testament idea of a prophet) but a ba'al deity. Mahomet is god, or rather ba'al, where Allah's only function is to legitimize Mahomet as his de facto usurper, just as Ba'al usurped the role of El in the Canaanite pantheon.

Moreover the Allah of Mahomet cannot by the same as the God of Moses, because he doesn't share the same characteristics. E.g. he is said to allow divorce be women and recommend crusades against the infidel unbelievers, including the Jews. The Jewish God doesn't allow for divorce by women or have the many pagan characteristics that Mahomet proclaims of Allah, such as spreading Judaism by the sword.

I think all these guys are trying to say is that the unitary God of Abraham is the real God, per Jhn 8:39, as opposed to the 3 x hypostases God of Roman Christianity. They are saying that whoever claims to worship the God of Abraham is to be credited. Well, is that so?

It was not Jesus' message in Jhn 8:39. He distinguishes between the God that people say they acknowledge and the God/god that they really acknowledge: a notion these rabbais don't yet seem to grasp.
Islam does not purport to worship Mahomet? Whom ever that might be.
 

cjab

Active member
Reverence is not the same as worship.
It is in the case of Islam, because for Islam there is no god and no prophet other than what Mahomet asserted, which is unverifiable. He gave no proofs, he merely establish a de facto proof by right of conquest. The sole legitimacy of Islam relies on its political conquests. Same as Ba'al. The sole legitimacy for ba'al were the poetical works legitimizing his approval by El, and the espousal of those works by the State's rulers to create national ba'al deities.

In every sense Mahomet is akin to Ba'al. Why can't his image be depicted? Because he is not human, but treated as if God himself.
 

Tiburon

Well-known member
It is in the case of Islam, because for Islam there is no god and no prophet other than what Mahomet asserted, which is unverifiable. He gave no proofs, he merely establish a de facto proof by right of conquest. The sole legitimacy of Islam relies on its political conquests. Same as Ba'al. The sole legitimacy for ba'al were the poetical works legitimizing his approval by El, and the espousal of those works by the State's rulers to create national ba'al deities.

In every sense Mahomet is akin to Ba'al. Why can't his image be depicted? Because he is not human, but treated as if God himself.
And in Christianity? What do we have there? Those who claim the God of the Bible is true give no proofs either.
In Islam it is wrong to force anyone to convert. The history of Christianity is full of forced conversions. Christianity was probably spread by the sword more than Islam.
 

cjab

Active member
And in Christianity? What do we have there? Those who claim the God of the Bible is true give no proofs either.
In Islam it is wrong to force anyone to convert. The history of Christianity is full of forced conversions. Christianity was probably spread by the sword more than Islam.
But your observances only reflect much later stages of Christianity, many hundreds of years after the time of Christ, when it had become a deeply politicized. And just because the old pagans were conquered by Christian emperors, which they had to be as they became criminally inclined predators and pirates, doesn't mean that their conquest was due to any edict by Christ to spread Christianity by the sword, as in the case of Islam.

In its earliest and purest form, Christianity was not in the least politicized and wasn't spread by the sword, it's spread being more like Buddhism than Islam. Moreover Christ's coming is attested by numerous prophecies in the Old Testament and the whole plan of salvation mapped out in advance, before he ever set foot on earth. Not so for Mahomet, who suddenly appeared with no prophecies relating to him of Islam except as appear in Revelation Chp. 9, where of Mahomet it is said "They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

So bereft was Islam of any attestation for Mahomet that the Koran even plagiarized Christian documents in a curious mistranslated way, which accounts for the 70 virgins in heaven and other such fantasies.

For that is what the Caliphs were: destroyers of ancient civilizations: for the most part Persian and corrupted Christian.

There were some forced conversions it is true, especially from monotheistic Jews to a corrupted (in their eyes) Trinitarian form of Christianity, but in general most pagans willingly converted on account of their recognition of their old gods as worthless. With the Jews the problem has always been the irreconcilability of the Greek additions to Christianity with strict Jewish monotheism. For the Jews had always accepted in principle the idea of a Messiah, as it is written into their own scriptures.
 
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Tiburon

Well-known member
But your observances only reflect much later stages of Christianity, many hundreds of years after the time of Christ, when it had become a deeply politicized. And just because the old pagans were conquered by Christian emperors, which they had to be as they became criminally inclined predators and pirates, doesn't mean that their conquest was due to any edict by Christ to spread Christianity by the sword, as in the case of Islam.

In its earliest and purest form, Christianity was not in the least politicized and wasn't spread by the sword, it's spread being more like Buddhism than Islam. Moreover Christ's coming is attested by numerous prophecies in the Old Testament and the whole plan of salvation mapped out in advance, before he ever set foot on earth. Not so for Mahomet, who suddenly appeared with no prophecies relating to him of Islam except as appear in Revelation Chp. 9, where of Mahomet it is said "They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

So bereft was Islam of any attestation for Mahomet that the Koran even plagiarized Christian documents in a curious mistranslated way, which accounts for the 70 virgins in heaven and other such fantasies.

For that is what the Caliphs were: destroyers of ancient civilizations: for the most part Persian and corrupted Christian.

There were some forced conversions it is true, especially from monotheistic Jews to a corrupted (in their eyes) Trinitarian form of Christianity, but in general most pagans willingly converted on account of their recognition of their old gods as worthless. With the Jews the problem has always been the irreconcilability of the Greek additions to Christianity with strict Jewish monotheism. For the Jews had always accepted in principle the idea of a Messiah, as it is written into their own scriptures.
Christianity piggy backed on the the Jewish scriptures. How is that better than what Muslims did? Christianity was politicised as soon as Constantine declared it the official religion of the Roman empire. Rather than being destroyers of ancient civilization Muslims actually saved and increased much of the wisdom of the Greeks that had been lost to Europe during the Dark Ages.
Where does the OT set out the whole plan of salvation. Most pagans willingly converted? Really. Most pagans converted under the boot of Rome.
I'm not sure Jews are as much concerned with the 'Trinity' as they are with Jesus being declared God. That was not one of their Messianic expectations.
 
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