An apology to Calvinists & Pelagians: Without love I am nothing

Woody50

Well-known member
He doesn't. It's wishful thinking.

Mormons are not Christians. They deny the deity of Christ, and the Trinity. They promote the belief that everyone can become a god.

2 Corinthians 6:14

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
Don't forget that Jesus is the brother of Satan.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Don't forget that Jesus is the brother of Satan.
There are several issues with that one. The first is that the Bible identifies Satan as a son of God:

Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.


Job 38:

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? ...
• • •
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


If two people are sons of the same father, technically that makes them brothers, no? That is the first point. The second point is that Satan (and the angels that followed him) were not always evil. At first they were created as angels of light. They became evil and fell because they sinned, and thus were cast out of heaven:

Luke 10:

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

2 Peter 2:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


They couldn’t have “fallen” out of heaven, unless they were already in heaven. So they weren’t always evil, or created evil. They became evil by their own choice, when they decided to sin and rebel against God. The third point is that, according to the Bible, we become the children of whoever we choose to obey. If we obey God, we become the children of God; if we choose to obey Satan, we become the children of Satan:

John 8:

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


So although Satan was a son of God when he was first crested (Job 1:6; 2:1), he is not so now, since he has rebelled against God and cast out of heaven. So no, we don’t claims that Jesus and Satan are brothers. He might have been considered such before he rebelled against God, when he was a “son of the morning” (Isaiah 14:12) and an angel of light, but not so now. The Bible teaches that all true believers and are considered brothers of Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 2:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth [Jesus] and they who are sanctified [saints] are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

John 20:

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


So there is nothing to be embarrassed about for the true saints of God to identify themselves as “brothers” of Jesus Christ. That is what the Bible identifies them as. But that definitely does not include Satan, who has rebelled against God and cast out, and is not now the “brother” to anybody except that angels that followed him down to hell. So no, it is not correct that we claim that Jesus and Satan are brothers. The Bible teaches that all true saints, believers (and good angels) are brothers of Jesus Christ, but not the wicked and evil ones, be they angels or men. That is the doctrine that we teach.
 
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Woody50

Well-known member
There are several issues with that one. The first is that the Bible identifies Satan as a son of God:

Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.


Job 38:

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? ...
• • •
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


If two people are sons of the same father, technically that makes them brothers, no? That is the first point. The second point is that Satan (and the angels that followed him) were not always evil. At first they were created as angels of light. They became evil and fell because they sinned, and thus were cast out of heaven:

Luke 10:

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

2 Peter 2:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


They couldn’t have “fallen” out of heaven, unless they were already in heaven. So they weren’t always evil, or created evil. They became evil by their own choice, when they decided to sin and rebel against God. The third point is that, according to the Bible, we become the children of whoever we choose to obey. If we obey God, we become the children of God; if we choose to obey Satan, we become the children of Satan:

John 8:

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


So although Satan was a son of God when he was first crested (Job 1:6; 2:1), he is not so now, since he has rebelled against God and cast out of heaven. So no, we don’t claims that Jesus and Satan are brothers. He might have been considered such before he rebelled against God, when he was a “son of the morning” (Isaiah 14:12) and an angel of light, but not so now. The Bible teaches that all true believers and are considered brothers of Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 2:

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11 For both he that sanctifieth [Jesus] and they who are sanctified [saints] are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

John 20:

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


So there is nothing to be embarrassed about for the true saints of God to identify themselves as “brothers” of Jesus Christ. That is what the Bible identifies them as. But that definitely does not include Satan, who has rebelled against God and cast out, and is not now the “brother” to anybody except that angels that followed him down to hell. So no, it is not correct that we claim that Jesus and Satan are brothers. The Bible teaches that all true saints, believers (and good angels) are brothers of Jesus Christ, but not the wicked and evil ones, be they angels or men. That is the doctrine that we teach.
So you admit it? Jesus is the brother of Satan?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
So you admit it? Jesus is the brother of Satan?
Cults demote Christ but promote Satan, this results in the leveling of the two...

'John' said Jesus must increase but 'the Baptist' must decrease. This is true of Satan as well; he is looked upon and found to be just a Worm...

Are Worms DIvine?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Cults demote Christ but promote Satan, this results in the leveling of the two...

'John' said Jesus must increase but 'the Baptist' must decrease. This is true of Satan as well; he is looked upon and found to be just a Worm...

Are Worms DIvine?
“Cults” are the ones who can’t stand biblical and divine truth presented to them in plain language as plain as it can be. They hate the light, and prefer to be in darkness rather than light.
 

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
“Cults” are the ones who can’t stand biblical and divine truth presented to them in plain language as plain as it can be. They hate the light, and prefer to be in darkness rather than light.

No, cults such as the LDS. impose human systems upon the God of the universe. They suppress the truth whenever they can. But, denying the deity of Christ is a serious issue.





The Bible clearly teaches the deity of Christ. Your favorite misfit, looney tune could NOT understand the Bible at all. That's why he dreamed up contradictory nonsense.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
You are so thoroughly deceived, it is beyond remarkable.
Since you guys are obsessed with Mormonism, and can’t leave it alone, even though this is meant to be a Calvinism forum, I will be happy to respond. I am pleased to inform you that Mormonism is God’s only true Church in the world today. It is a Restoration of the original and true Church of Jesus Christ, which apostatized in the first century, and lost the priestly, Apostolic, prophetic, and divine authority that it originally had. It is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, restored by revelation, ministration of angeles, and power of God in our time. It is led by revelation, as the ancient Church used to be, and it has additional scripture as evidence to prove it. No one can knowingly and willfully reject its divine message and expect to be saved.
 

JDS

Well-known member
I just keep telling myself I hope I spend as much time in tears asking God to bring his truth to others as I do being tempted to enjoy correcting them.
It is okay to cry and crying has its place but crying wont help anyone but you. There is a serious war going on between good and evil and at some point you will need to gird up your trousers like a man and put on the whole armour of God and take the sword of the Spirit and fight like the soldier in the army of God you are called to be.

Maybe some eternal souls are depending on you doing that.
 

Dizerner

Active member
It is okay to cry and crying has its place but crying wont help anyone but you. There is a serious war going on between good and evil and at some point you will need to gird up your trousers like a man and put on the whole armour of God and take the sword of the Spirit and fight like the soldier in the army of God you are called to be.

Maybe some eternal souls are depending on you doing that.

I'm afraid somewhere you have a false identity of masculinity or toughness.

Jesus' tears brought a man back from the dead. Maybe you need to reevaluate your weapons.

To find a way to actually somewhere deeply care about someone instead of be filled with the idea of needing to prove you are right, would take you off the battleground of fighting flesh with flesh. We do not wage war against flesh and blood, we do not fight with the world's weapons and the world's ideas of being "tough."

You want tough? Try having someone insult you, revile you, and then turn around and bless them.

You might be more wimpy than you think.

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult.
On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing

If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.
And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.
 
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