An important distinction that I believe cannot be overemphasized

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Let me show you how stupid your comment above is....

IOW Stiggy, you pick and choose what you WANT to believe as factual or "myth." If it doesn't "comport" with your religious worldview you reject it, since your experiences are exhaustive and all inclusive.

So by throwing my own words back at me about how you ignorantly think you can arrive at the truth of things as though that IS the normal way to do so, you implicitly admit that you pick and choose what you WANT to believe as factual or "myth." and if it doesn't "comport" with your experience with reality you reject it, since your experiences are exhaustive and all inclusive.

You are always getting your face washed in your own toilet.

Having fantasies about feces on another man's face? Are you a Chuck Berry fan?

No, the supernatural is inherently illegitimate because it is never uncovered or recorded in any legitimate historical genre literature.

I already commented on your implied asinine definition of illegitimate history as "that which I, 5wize don't believe." Stop repeating yourself. Get some new material.

Whoops! You forgot to show where I said I read peer reviews on the moon shot?

So you DON'T use your own expressed criteria for verifying stuff?
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
And yet you're obviously offended by the presence of people who question your religious faith.

WRONG! If it's so obvious why did you fail so miserably at providing any quotes of mine indicating offense? No, I'm pretty much unoffendable.
 

5wize

Well-known member
So by throwing my own words back at me about how you ignorantly think you can arrive at the truth of things as though that IS the normal way to do so, you implicitly admit that you pick and choose what you WANT to believe as factual or "myth." and if it doesn't "comport" with your experience with reality you reject it, since your experiences are exhaustive and all inclusive.
The difference is my worldview is verified by common and externally verifiable observations across culture and religious views. Your worldview is an internalized anecdotal emotional fantasy that someone can just make themselves feel and believe without any external evidence. Your verification of truth is simply that there is a vast group of deluded people that have made themselves feel the same thing. Every group that takes on a supernatural belief finds this camaraderie in a common self delusion.
I already commented on your implied asinine definition of illegitimate history as "that which I, 5wize don't believe." Stop repeating yourself. Get some new material.
And your comment was stupid. I don't believe in it because it isn't experienced in an external reality. Giving you another shot at it. Strike 2.
So you DON'T use your own expressed criteria for verifying stuff?
The use of external verification by science can be trusted to experts because of the business they are in and the way they go about it. Mistakes in science are correctable because here isn't a dogmatic sacred conclusion being protected at all costs. If God is discovered, it will be reported.

The type of fantastical thinking you indulge in has created the ridiculous internalized emotional claims of superstitious religions the world over, most of which you deny without experience of them or verification. You deny them only because there is no room in your head for any competing, but just as ridiculous, supernatural claim. Your personal religious conclusion is sacred, there is no room for the truth of the matter in you any more.
 
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stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
The difference is my worldview is verified by common and externally verifiable observations across culture and religious views.

Nonsense. There is nothing you can observe that will verify your shallow beliefs. What have you personally observed that verifies your belief that you evolved from protoplasmic slime?

All you have going for you is your idiotic "I ain't never experienced no supernatural stuff, so therefore no one has."

I don't believe in it because it isn't experienced in an external reality.

"It isn't" meaning "you haven't." Universalizing your own limited shallow experiences is just plain idiotic. Maybe you'd best stick with what you do best: Whining about how Christendom done you wrong back in the day.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Nonsense. There is nothing you can observe that will verify your shallow beliefs. What have you personally observed that verifies your belief that you evolved from protoplasmic slime?
Show me where I claimed that belief... go ahead... fail miserably.... again.
All you have going for you is your idiotic "I ain't never experienced no supernatural stuff, so therefore no one has."



"It isn't" meaning "you haven't." Universalizing your own limited shallow experiences is just plain idiotic.
These types of supernatural occurrences are not recorded as credible in ANY historical genre literature, not just my personal experience. They are only adhered to as fact by religious literature. This type of literature exists across all cultures, and you dismiss them all except your own unproven fantastical belief.

Your entire belief is steeped in your "Universalizing your own limited shallow experiences" and is far more idiotic as you have zero reason to believe one wholly internalized belief over the other. This is unlike me who looks to many, many accounts of that externally witnessed reality across all cultures and religions to discern the types of nonsense you, and they, peddle.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Show me where I claimed that belief...

So you DON'T believe you evolved. Good. You're not as dumb as I had thought.

These types of supernatural occurrences are not recorded as credible in ANY historical genre literature,

You keep repeating the same dumb and tired theme: With no evidence whatsoever, you imply that 500 people either lied or were lied about by several people who also must be lying about being eyewitnesses. You're gonna have to do better than "I personally ain't believin' it so it therefore ain't credible."
Makes you sound real dumb.
 

5wize

Well-known member
So you DON'T believe you evolved. Good. You're not as dumb as I had thought.



You keep repeating the same dumb and tired theme: With no evidence whatsoever, you imply that 500 people either lied or were lied about by several people who also must be lying about being eyewitnesses. You're gonna have to do better than "I personally ain't believin' it so it therefore ain't credible."
Makes you sound real dumb.
What is really dumb is your belief that a resurrection of a man, and the graves of the dead opening up in Jerusalem - not exactly a back-water hick town - during the extremely popular and overcrowded festival of Passover, and zombies mulling about escaped all contemporary historical documents. Only the supernatural religious documents already predisposed to fill in cult beliefs report hundreds of people seeing something years ago that none that wrote the gospels actually witnessed - all while a cult mythology was developing in a superstitious time and place of crazy supernatural thinking.

Here's one for you. Josephus documented pretty extensively the era of King Herod's court. Where is the earth shattering declaration that the long awaited Jewish messiah has arrived as reported by the magi to King Herod - a Jew, so historically shattering that all Jerusalem was a-buzz and he sent out assassins?

You couldn't be any more purposefully obtuse to the problems of your magical belief system and its founding scriptural document - the Bible - juxtaposed to legitimate history.
 
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stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
What is really ................................................................... your magical belief system and its founding scriptural document - the Bible - juxtaposed to legitimate history.

My, you DO babble on don't you? For your next reply why not save all the repetitive horse manure and just type:

"Duh, the stuff you believe, it be magic but that what I believes it be all historical and stuff."

That has been the PRECISE summation of every one of your last six posts here. Hire someone to provide new material.
 

5wize

Well-known member
My, you DO babble on don't you? For your next reply why not save all the repetitive horse manure and just type:

"Duh, the stuff you believe, it be magic but that what I believes it be all historical and stuff."

That has been the PRECISE summation of every one of your last six posts here. Hire someone to provide new material.
Because it's better when you finally figure it out like you did above.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Because it's better when you finally figure it out like you did above.
Duh, yeah boss. I done figgered it out. You ain't never had no supernatural experience to comport, izzat da right word, so dat means nobody has and all dem folks what say dey has, dey be lyin'.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You are awfully curious, but not for facts or reality it seems.
Well, that is your opinion. One based more on your biases than on reality.
I am however quite curious. It's part of what I'd consider one of the elixirs of life.

Exactly the opposite. I look at the reality of the world today, and it does include an acknowledgement of the emotionally deluded that imagine a supernatural inner world.
I think that you only see the material world. I see the world and the creator, and the consequences of sin on the human race. It is indeed an ugly situation.
The planet itself is a beautiful planet. What humans are doing to it is sick. What humans are doing to themselves and one another is even sicker still!

Thankfully, YHVH has explicitly provided us with a savior who will restore the human race to our rightful, created, and love-based state.



It's also having the result of preventing you from learning the truth and keeping you bound by the lies you have previously learned, and chosen to believe through being deceived.

After all, we read that every man does what is right in his own eyes. Judges 21:25.

And it has. It didn't happen in history. It is reported only in supernatural literature rife with false claims. That's what supernatural literature does. It is the motif.
So you have definitive proof that you are right and none of these have any basis in reality?

You are awfully curious, but not for facts or reality it seems.
You keep claiming that yet offer nothing but your opinions, based solely on your own bias and preconceptions.

I enjoy being curious. It's a carry over from childhood. I used to piss my parents off by all the questions I'd ask. While they nearly succeeded in beating the curiosity out of me, Jesus restored me, and gave me the liberty, and joy to be curious again. It's ever increasing.

Pity you're not curious. I thought it was part of being human.

But they can be verified or discarded with new work/evidence.
Can be, but you won't actually bother with them, will you?

This is what I find so sad about your atheism. You lack the courage to actually do so. It seems like atheists on this forum are rife with this lack.
No curiosity. No motivation to learn for themselves. They always point to someone else and leave it there.

Why even talk about what can be done if you have no interest whatsoever in actually learning for yourself?




There is nothing sacred in science that must be true in order to support a worldview such as Christianity does.

I disagree. Having studied physics and math, computer programming, chemistry, and learning about my cancer and biology.... there's a sacredness of discovery and learning.

Revelation through engagement and observation is perhaps one of the most sacred things in science.

I find it curious that you haven't actually seen this before.

I find it very sad that you vilify it in order to hide your lack of courage to learn behind.

In science, as in biblical christianity, learning is one of the pinnacles of life/living.





You are awfully curious, but not for facts or reality it seems.
What seems to you is your own bias and preconceptions.
I actually enjoy learning, curiosity is like enjoying a basket filled with summer fruits. Tree/plant/bush ripened, plucked right off the plant, and as you bite into them, the sweet juices run down your face, and onto your shirt.

Perhaps the problem you're having here is that you simply never tasted really ripe fruit before.



Category error Steve. Not even close.
I wouldn't know. You have expressed nothing but mockery and disdain towards all things righteous and godly.
So, it seems to me that the only reason you don't want it to be close is to escape culpability.

Because you don't know what you are talking about but you proselytize as if you do.
Yet, in your lack of curiosity, in your lack of experience, understanding, learning and awareness, you have so much more than I could ever conceive.

Well, for someone who claims to know so much about so little, and knows nothing about the One who actually knows exactly what you're thinking and doing at this moment, I'm confident he'll achieve what is necessary for you to actually make his acquaintance.
yup

The lies you believe do not facilitate a good change in your life. Lie never do.
And yet you're the only one who keeps believing that you and you alone know objective truth. All while having ignored, indeed denied any truth not in the realm of your awareness.


I now to recognize and stay away from lies like you tell.
Considering that you have made yourself a child of lies, fraud and deception, I'm sure you believe that.

It's actually quite educational reading such opinionated commentary from you.
You clearly have no understanding of the gospel of Jesus. You have no basis for your ignorance, you clearly despise any form of curiosity that doesn't fit your bill.

I am familiar with their arguments. They hinge on the belief that the bible is historical, not supernatural/religious, literature. That belief is not true so the main premise of their work is false.
Really.
I was of the impression that they actually investigated it.
Curious.... just how skilled are you at investigation?


No...I appeal to our shared reality.
Who do you share reality with? You've repeatedly accused me of lacking awareness of reality.
So, it can't be me you're sharing your reality with.

Yet you do, because you are filled with fear otherwise.
I used to be filled with fear. Now.... not so much anymore.

The love of YHVH through Jesus Christ fills my heart and mind.

So, even when we were commanded to fear God, we read that the fear of God is to hate evil, pride and the arrogant way.

So, I'd say that you're not even close.




Why would not living in a fantasy world make me live in a fantasy world? You are desperate.
Nope.
Just simple observation.
 
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