An important distinction that I believe cannot be overemphasized

Over 100 billion human beings have walked the earth and Jesus Christ is the ONLY one who utilized His free will to live a perfectly sinless life?
Asinine!

The repercussion of Original Sin, the tainted nature that God consciously, purposefully, and needlessly chose that we each be born with as a consequence of Adam and Eve's defiance, is such that not one of us can EVER be good enough to earn our way into Heaven

Again, this is the very reason that Jesus Christ came to us
So you believe people MUST sin

Original sin is a result of our fallen nature but it is not evidence that we MUST sin. We are free to not sin as well as to sin.
 
Classic. You start by opposing the need for the opinions of experts just to bolster your silly beliefs with the opinions of experts.

Nicely done... 😆😆😆😆😆😆

What's wrong, don't like that opinions abound, but you choose unbelief to avoid knowing, and others choose to find out for themselves, and recognize that belief is valid, and therefore knowing is validated?

Seems to me that if you don't want to know, then you'll find out too late to do anything about it.

I'm of the group who doesn't like others informing my opinions, so I find out for myself. So much more effective this way.
 
So you believe people MUST sin

Original sin is a result of our fallen nature but it is not evidence that we MUST sin.
Yes, I believe that God saw to it that every human being must sin at least once, thus warranting an eternal damnation

The FACT that, outside of Jesus Christ, not one single human being has lived a sinless life bears out my belief

Do tell, how is it that just one of more than 100 billion human beings has decided to live a perfectly sinless life?
And doesn't it strike you as odd that the one human being who chose to live a sinless life also happens to be God, Himself?

No, Yak, it makes far more sense to say that we fail to live sinless lives because we are incapable of doing so than it does to claim that just one single, solitary man has made the choice to be sinless

You just don't want to see it because it'll force you to acknowledge some unpleasant truths as regarding God...
 
We are free to not sin as well as to sin.
Yes, you are correct

We are free to sin or not to sin an almost infinite number of times throughout our lives

What we are not free to do, though, is to live perfectly sinless lives
And as far as I am concerned, if one is not free to live a sinless life then one does not possess a true free will
 
What's wrong, don't like that opinions abound, but you choose unbelief to avoid knowing, and others choose to find out for themselves, and recognize that belief is valid, and therefore knowing is validated?

Seems to me that if you don't want to know, then you'll find out too late to do anything about it.

I'm of the group who doesn't like others informing my opinions, so I find out for myself. So much more effective this way.
But you had chance to validate your beliefs over mine and you couldn't do it. All you could do was point to PhDs that believe.

So what? There were no points presented as to why, as I did. I'm sure their opinions echo yours which are debunked.
 
But you had chance to validate your beliefs over mine and you couldn't do it. All you could do was point to PhDs that believe.

So what? There were no points presented as to why, as I did. I'm sure their opinions echo yours which are debunked.
I validate my beliefs every single day of my life.

If you actually want to know, then take the time to learn and then do what Jesus said.

He was quite clear about this.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Doesn't look any more solid a means by which we can know than YHVH and Jesus coming to make their home with us.

do you just want an argument or definitive evidence to corroborate it?


I'll take practical knowledge any day over an argument.
 
I validate my beliefs every single day of my life.
WoW... me too! I doubt you've seen a resurrection though, so you re lying there.
If you actually want to know, then take the time to learn and then do what Jesus said.
You don't have a clue what Jesus said because the bible is not a source of truth on that matter.
He was quite clear about this.

Joh 14:23 WEB Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Doesn't look any more solid a means by which we can know than YHVH and Jesus coming to make their home with us.

do you just want an argument or definitive evidence to corroborate it?


I'll take practical knowledge any day over an argument.
I already told you what you need to know about the book of John. It is the least reliable of all the gospels, and the other gospels are not that reliable to start with. The gospels rob you of knowledge and practical experience and replace it with false emotionally based faith only. Nothing real in scripture or your emotional experience of it.
 
WoW... me too! I doubt you've seen a resurrection though, so you re lying there.
So, the problem you're having here is your unbelief in the reality of YHVH and Jesus, so it's not possible for them to do exactly what they said they would do.

Ok. Ignorance and inexperience is a good way to remain ignorant and inexperienced.



You don't have a clue what Jesus said because the bible is not a source of truth on that matter.
But of course you have definitive proof that he didn't actually say what is recorded in the bible.

By all means, please provide it. This should be easy.

Furthermore, provide the definitive proof that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead. 1990 years of history, you should be able to verify that.
After all, it's not like it hasn't been attempted for centuries. So, go for it! I'm confident that someone, somewhere over the past 199 decades have finally figured out what you believe to be true.

Go gather the entire collection of writings on the topic. I'm confident that you're intelligent enough to handle this.



I already told you what you need to know about the book of John.
Ah! So I'm to implicitly trust you. A complete and total stranger, with whom the only familiarity I have is their clear, obvious and bear naked hatred towards all things righteous, godly, and true.

Yeah. Not going to happen. But, I'm giving you the opportunity to engage in extensive research on this topic. World history should be able to facilitate this.



It is the least reliable of all the gospels, and the other gospels are not that reliable to start with.
There are 4 gospels. I'm pretty clear that the problem here isn't that John is unreliable. Rather you're simply unfamiliar with the issues that you are clearly using the ill informed opinions of total strangers with whom you have no familiarity, beyond your common clear, obvious and contemptuous loathing of all things righteous, godly and true.

So, why would I consider a copy of a copy, of a copy of a copy of so much hatred, contempt and disgust?

Seems pretty twisted and corrupted to me.


The gospels rob you of knowledge and practical experience and replace it with false emotionally based faith only.
Really?
Because I'm looking around the world today, and I see serious problems with the lack of knowledge, lack of humanity, hate, rage, greed, avarice, and numerous other problems.

The human race is running headlong towards its own self-destruction.

So, what.... exactly.... is this knowledge you're proclaiming that I'm missing out on?
The knowledge and experience of murder? Rape? Multiple sexual partners? The experience of destroying my liver, kidneys, brain cells, etc. By imbibing my appetite for "the finer" things of life?
Or, perhaps I'm losing out on the knowledge of how to destroy others as I make millions at their expense?

Perhaps I'm missing out on the knowledge of physics? Math? I did that.
Astrophysics? The opportunity to discover some far off planet that would have the potential to save the human race from their stupidity, and result in a 500 year journey to a far off planet? All to repeat the same crimes and stupidity all over again, somewhere else?

Perhaps the creation of a computer program that once implanted into the human brain, turns them into automatons, slaves to a code that removes their humanity.

I can easily keep going for a while here. I love science fiction. So many incredible and bizarre ideas that we're slowly seeing unfold before us.

Ironically, everything I've seen unfold over the past 60 years.... none of it have changed the one thing that is an imperative to change.
Human beings. They're still filled with sin, they still die. 5hey still hate. They are still killing one another.

The womb has become the most recent killing fields.
In the past 867 days, 104 million babies have been slaughtered like animals.

Nothing real in scripture or your emotional experience of it.
And of course you have extensive knowledge and experience of this because you failed.

Let me know when you get your doctoral thesis on the non-resurrection of Jesus written.

I'll even make sure that it gets passed along to people who have been researching this issue for decades.

After all, I'm confident that you would want it to be peer reviewed by those who are actually educated in history and the resurrection of Jesus.
 
Wrong. Many things are obvious. Otherwise the word "obvious" would obviously not exist.
That's why I specified "your thought processes" as the exception.

Wrong. That's the purpose, not the power. That should be OBVIOUS.
But without the power you can't achieve that purpose.
So the power is just your ability to do?
The power of sin is just the ability to sin?

Exactly. You have corrected your error now.
No I've corrected your understanding.

IMMENSELY!!
Wow indeed. It's called Amazing Grace.
His grace is in forgiving you.
Not dialling down the power of sin.
 
That's why I specified "your thought processes" as the exception.

Sorry, but it's obvious to most prison inmates. Maybe you have yet to rise to that level.

So the power is just your ability to do?
The power of sin is just the ability to sin?

Correct. I think you're learning.

No I've corrected your understanding.

LOL. One cannot correct something one does not understand. It's like thinking an Alzheimer's patient can correct his medication.

His grace is in forgiving you.

Correct.

Not dialling down the power of sin.

Wrong,. How would you know anyway? Are you claiming He has forgiven you of your sins but left you powerless to deal with them? Not much of an atheist, are you?
 
So, the problem you're having here is your unbelief in the reality of YHVH and Jesus, so it's not possible for them to do exactly what they said they would do.

Ok. Ignorance and inexperience is a good way to remain ignorant and inexperienced.




But of course you have definitive proof that he didn't actually say what is recorded in the bible.

By all means, please provide it. This should be easy.

Furthermore, provide the definitive proof that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead. 1990 years of history, you should be able to verify that.
After all, it's not like it hasn't been attempted for centuries. So, go for it! I'm confident that someone, somewhere over the past 199 decades have finally figured out what you believe to be true.

Go gather the entire collection of writings on the topic. I'm confident that you're intelligent enough to handle this.




Ah! So I'm to implicitly trust you. A complete and total stranger, with whom the only familiarity I have is their clear, obvious and bear naked hatred towards all things righteous, godly, and true.

Yeah. Not going to happen. But, I'm giving you the opportunity to engage in extensive research on this topic. World history should be able to facilitate this.




There are 4 gospels. I'm pretty clear that the problem here isn't that John is unreliable. Rather you're simply unfamiliar with the issues that you are clearly using the ill informed opinions of total strangers with whom you have no familiarity, beyond your common clear, obvious and contemptuous loathing of all things righteous, godly and true.

So, why would I consider a copy of a copy, of a copy of a copy of so much hatred, contempt and disgust?

Seems pretty twisted and corrupted to me.



Really?
Because I'm looking around the world today, and I see serious problems with the lack of knowledge, lack of humanity, hate, rage, greed, avarice, and numerous other problems.

The human race is running headlong towards its own self-destruction.

So, what.... exactly.... is this knowledge you're proclaiming that I'm missing out on?
The knowledge and experience of murder? Rape? Multiple sexual partners? The experience of destroying my liver, kidneys, brain cells, etc. By imbibing my appetite for "the finer" things of life?
Or, perhaps I'm losing out on the knowledge of how to destroy others as I make millions at their expense?

Perhaps I'm missing out on the knowledge of physics? Math? I did that.
Astrophysics? The opportunity to discover some far off planet that would have the potential to save the human race from their stupidity, and result in a 500 year journey to a far off planet? All to repeat the same crimes and stupidity all over again, somewhere else?

Perhaps the creation of a computer program that once implanted into the human brain, turns them into automatons, slaves to a code that removes their humanity.

I can easily keep going for a while here. I love science fiction. So many incredible and bizarre ideas that we're slowly seeing unfold before us.

Ironically, everything I've seen unfold over the past 60 years.... none of it have changed the one thing that is an imperative to change.
Human beings. They're still filled with sin, they still die. 5hey still hate. They are still killing one another.

The womb has become the most recent killing fields.
In the past 867 days, 104 million babies have been slaughtered like animals.


And of course you have extensive knowledge and experience of this because you failed.

Let me know when you get your doctoral thesis on the non-resurrection of Jesus written.

I'll even make sure that it gets passed along to people who have been researching this issue for decades.

After all, I'm confident that you would want it to be peer reviewed by those who are actually educated in history and the resurrection of Jesus.
I noticed in that entire unhinged rant you didn't offer proof of the dead rising or that the gospels were not 1st century fabrications.

You never met and don't even know who wrote that stuff 2000 years ago, but you trust them? Kind of sad and mentally frail.
 
Last edited:
Nope.
He can't be wrong.
That's your opinion.

And it's not a matter of my not being able to accept that you are failing to meet him.

It's a matter of you're not actually coming to Jesus and recognizing that he heard you and has responded to you as you want.

He's stated that he is standing at the door knocking. If you hear him, and open the door, he will enter, and dine with you.

He's said elsewhere that you have to pay attention and listen.


So, if you haven't met him, this is about you not listening.
No. If I haven't met him it's because he hasn't made himself known to me.
If he exists then he apparently knows the limits of my senses and my logic. So he knows what it would take for me to recognise his presence.
You are just making excuses for why my experience doesn't match with what your book says.
 
Sorry, but it's obvious to most prison inmates. Maybe you have yet to rise to that level.
So you've surveyed your fellow prisoners have you?

Correct. I think you're learning.
I thought you meant power as it's ability to influence something not merely the ability to do it.

Wrong,. How would you know anyway? Are you claiming He has forgiven you of your sins but left you powerless to deal with them? Not much of an atheist, are you?
In my observation of Christians I see no difference in their ability to deal with 'sin'.
I don't think ones atheist-ness is quantitative.
 
So you've surveyed your fellow prisoners have you?

I have indeed talked to several incarcerated fellows about sin. Good guess.

I thought you meant power as it's ability to influence something not merely the ability to do it.

Both.

In my observation of Christians I see no difference in their ability to deal with 'sin'.

You can "observe" Christians' hearts and minds?

I don't think ones atheist-ness is quantitative.

I've just never met an atheist like you who thinks God forgives sin.
 
I noticed in that entire unhinged rant you didn't offer proof of the dead rising or that the gospels were not 1st century fabrications.
I noticed that in your entire unhinged rant, you never actually offered any evidence, except for your unsupported opinion of unbelief, that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.



You never met and don't even know who wrote that stuff 2000 years ago, but you trust them? Kind of sad and mentally frail.
Yet, instead of being a diligent investigator and researching the resurrection of Jesus, you act like one of those shallow souls spoken of by Teddy Roosevelt in his Sorbonne speech.

Citizenship in a Republic https://g.co/kgs/M2XMdj

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Have the courage of your convictions.
 
That's your opinion.
Based entirely on learning, experience and observation.
What's your opinion based on?
The lack of learning? The lack of experience? The lack of observation because you had no idea what to be looking for?

It's long been said that chance favors the prepared mind.
So, how could you know if you never learn?

No. If I haven't met him it's because he hasn't made himself known to me.
So, you never actually inquired after him?
How long have people been talking with you about him, his existence, Jesus, and the resurrection?

Seems like the problem here isn't that he hasn't been there, calling to you. Rather, you're ignoring him, and instead, arguing about it to his people. People who daily reason with you regarding their own experiences with Him.

If he exists then he apparently knows the limits of my senses and my logic.
Indeed. Ironically, he's stated:

1Co 1:21 WEB For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

So, as YHVH says that he's chosen to not use the wisdom/logic of humans to make himself knowable to us, don't you think that you should simply stop trying to figure out how to do this, and learn the means He's chosen to make sure that you can know him?

As I've stated numerous times before, to others....

If I tell you that I will meet you at a given location and you go everywhere except where I have instructed you, do you actually think that your complaint that I am not real is going to stand? It may sound cute among those who you don't tell that singular point that I'd given you explicit instructions on where, and when I'd be there. But the moment you divulge that item, your friends will look at you as though you've lost your mind.

It's one thing if you simply do not want to know him. It's another altogether if you do want to know, but the experiences haven't let you know what to do, or how to engage him on the terms he's prescribed.


So he knows what it would take for me to recognise his presence.
You are just making excuses for why my experience doesn't match with what your book says.
Well, the bible is the basis for what's necessary to make his acquaintance.

So, if you actually think that this comment is going to justify you, you're gravely mistaken.

We come to him on his terms in this life, or wait until death, and we learn how utterly screwed we are.

Jesus was quite clear about this.
 
I noticed that in your entire unhinged rant, you never actually offered any evidence, except for your unsupported opinion of unbelief, that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.
Not my problem. You and I do not experience a reality where the dead are re-animated except in movies like Frankenstein. Yet, you claim one with zero evidence or theory of how it can happen. there are no witnesses to a resurrection on any historical record.

However, supernatural religious literature, which tends to be cultural, biased, and supernaturally competitive, prone to hyperbole, exagetion, and fabrication are rife with these claims.

You have done nothing to raise your written sources above that latter type of literature. Can you do that without appealing to your emotional satisfaction alone or bias for this supernatural claim to be true in order to validate your wild, unsubstantiated, and unverified beliefs?
Yet, instead of being a diligent investigator and researching the resurrection of Jesus, you act like one of those shallow souls spoken of by Teddy Roosevelt in his Sorbonne speech.

Citizenship in a Republic https://g.co/kgs/M2XMdj

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Have the courage of your convictions.
Those of us that have not abandoned this world, to live instead in a fantasy awaiting and living for the next world out of past pain and/or future fear, are the ones emulating Roosevelt's inspiration. That is not you.
 
Last edited:
there are no witnesses to a resurrection on any historical record.

WRONG!!!!!

Oh, let me guess. All those accounts of witnesses by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John don't count because you don't accept them, right? Go ahead and mumble some more about how resurrections don't "comport" with how YOU "experience reality."
 
All those accounts of witnesses by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John don't count because .....
... they are supernatural religious literature not written as a witness to the events, but as a response to a growing cult belief evolving over time. They tend to be cultural, biased, supernaturally competitive (who's got the stronger god), prone to hyperbole, exaggeration, and fabrication. Your favorite book is rife with these easily dismissed claims.
 
Back
Top