Angels

Maxtar

Active member
Do you know what the RCC teaching is on how and why this great battle took place in Heaven with Michael and the angels?
Nope. I only know it happened and that is the extent of my knowledge on the issue. I was never really interested in all this "Angel" business.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I read that the RCC teaches that angels have no bodies, so they cannot acquire knowledge; they need "infused" knowledge. Where as man learns every day and extrapolates more from that knowledge, angels know everything at the moment of their creation. The RCC teaches further that the angels knowledge is gained all at once, and their will makes one choice that lasts for all eternity. So, in other words, according to RCC teaching, angels can't change their minds after they have made a decision. And, unfortunately, some of the angels in heaven made the decision to turn away from God and that's what started that great battle in heaven you were mentioning.
I've never read anything in God's Word regarding God's creation of the angels, nor about their "infused" knowledge, and how they know everything at the moment of their creation.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
This is what happens so many times here. A Catholic and a non-Catholic have a decent and respectful conversation going and then the non-Catholic goes right into the toilet. Pitiful.
I was puzzled by your response. I certainly was not accusing you of anything. I asked you that question about Satan simply because he was/ is an angel also, and you have repeatedly said that you don't think much about angels - and with Satan being one of them - in fact wouldn't he be the chief of all the dark angels - is what prompted my question about him.
 

Maxtar

Active member
I certainly was not accusing you of anything.
It sure seemed like it. I guess that would be a question I would never pose to a fellow Christian, I would take it as a matter of course that he/she would: A. Believes that the evil one exists. B. Would give little or no attention at all to Him. And in this conversation I already answered in post #9 where I said the following: "The Church teaches what is said in the Apoc. “And there was a great battle in Heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in Heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” (Apoc. 12:7-9)
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
It sure seemed like it. I guess that would be a question I would never pose to a fellow Christian, I would take it as a matter of course that he/she would: A. Believes that the evil one exists. B. Would give little or no attention at all to Him. And in this conversation I already answered in post #9 where I said the following: "The Church teaches what is said in the Apoc. “And there was a great battle in Heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in Heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” (Apoc. 12:7-9)
Sorry 'bout the mix-up with the meaning in the wording. Perhaps at this point it's best to switch subjects.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Well, they teach that each of us has a "Guardian Angel". As stated in the Baltimore Catechism, “Angels are pure spirits without a body, created to adore and enjoy God in Heaven.” They were created to praise God, manifesting a state of perpetual adoration of the Most Holy Trinity. They are the attendants of God, “mighty in strength,” who “execute His word, hearkening to the voice of His orders” (Ps. 102:20).

Supposedly they act as messengers and are sent to communicate with humans what God’s Will is in a given situation. The Church teaches what is said in the Apoc. “And there was a great battle in Heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in Heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” (Apoc. 12:7-9)
The nuns taught us in RCC parochial school that Mary did not die, but that when her time on earth was 'fulfilled' God sent angels to earth with His instructions to the angels, to bear Mary upon their wings, body and soul as God 'assumed ' her into heaven and crowned her the "Queen of Heaven."
 
How does a nameless group of individuals whom the Bible calls "angels" benefit Roman Catholics individually or the Roman Catholic Church as a whole ?
There are several different choirs of angels, I believe there are seven, and each play a different role.
 

balshan

Well-known member
It sure seemed like it. I guess that would be a question I would never pose to a fellow Christian, I would take it as a matter of course that he/she would: A. Believes that the evil one exists. B. Would give little or no attention at all to Him. And in this conversation I already answered in post #9 where I said the following: "The Church teaches what is said in the Apoc. “And there was a great battle in Heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in Heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.” (Apoc. 12:7-9)
Yet so many times assuming means we are mistaken like your response in post 24. No one can know exactly what another thinks from posts, as the posts are not in depth. Also intelligent people ask questions to clarify and to make sure they understand what another thinks.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I'm with Padre Pio on this one. I can't tell you the number of times my Guardian Angel has kept me out of trouble.
“O delightful intimacy, O blessed companionship! Oh, if only all men knew how to understand and appreciate this very great gift that God, in the excess of His love for men, has assigned to us this celestial spirit! Recall frequently his presence: you ought to fix your mind’s eye upon him. Thank him, pray to him. He is so finely mannered, so discreet: respect him. Have continual fear lest you offend the purity of his gaze.​
Invoke frequently this (your) Guardian Angel, this benefactor angel. Repeat often the beautiful prayer: “Angel of God, my Guardian dear, to whom the heavenly Father’s bounty entrusts me here; enlighten me, guard me, guide me now and forever.” How great, my dear Raffaelina, will be the consolation, when, at the hour of death, your soul will see this angel, who is so good, who has accompanied you throughout your life, who was so ample in his maternal care! Oh that this sweet thought may make you, may render you continually more fond of the Cross of Jesus! This is namely what your good angel desires! ? May the desire to see this inseparable companion of your entire life enkindle in you that charity which moves you to desire soon to leave the body.​
Oh, what a holy and salutary thought it is to see this our good angel! It is this aspiration, namely, that should make us escape ahead of time from this dark prison in which we are detained. O Raffaelina, where are my thoughts flying to now? How many times, alas, have I made this good angel weep! How many times have I lived without the least fear of offending the purity of his regard! Oh, he is so finely mannered, so discreet. My God, how many times did I respond to the ample, more than maternal care of this good angel without any sign of respect, affection or acknowledgment! It is this thought that presently rather fills me with confusion: alas — hear this and be horrified — such is my blindness that I feel no remorse at this. And what is worse still, I treat this dear little angel, I do not say as a friend, but as a member of my family. And to tell the truth, this dear angel is not the least offended at being treated like this by me. How precious he is, how good!” (Padre Pio To Raffaelina Cerase 1914-1915, Letter 64)​
JoeT​
JoeT states: I'm with Padre Pio on this one.

Are you also "with" Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbons who went so far in his book "Faith of our Fathers" as to suggest that Jesus chose His closest disciples on the basis of their virginity, and that when He went to heaven he chose a special band of 140,000 virgin angels for the same reason.
 

balshan

Well-known member
JoeT states: I'm with Padre Pio on this one.

Are you also "with" Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbons who went so far in his book "Faith of our Fathers" as to suggest that Jesus chose His closest disciples on the basis of their virginity, and that when He went to heaven he chose a special band of 140,000 virgin angels for the same reason.
Really did he forget Peter was married?
 
How does a nameless group of individuals whom the Bible calls "angels" benefit Roman Catholics individually or the Roman Catholic Church as a whole ?


The RCC has canonized certain angels as official saints in their faith. "St. Michael the Archangel" being the most prominent in the RCC pantheon.

This is , BTW, not supported by the BIble at all. The term "saint" is never used to refer to angels in scripture.
 

JoeT

Member
JoeT states: I'm with Padre Pio on this one.

Are you also "with" Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbons who went so far in his book "Faith of our Fathers" as to suggest that Jesus chose His closest disciples on the basis of their virginity, and that when He went to heaven he chose a special band of 140,000 virgin angels for the same reason.
I haven't read Cardinal Gibbons. This is a rather old book, why don't you quote it, perhaps give us a link. But, through my own experiences I know Padre Pio is right.

JoeT
 
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