Another example of why I'm an atheist

[Whateverman]

After discovering I could post to the Christian sections of these forums, I decided to peruse them - and came across the following:

The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought human
life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying much of it in a
global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.

Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He brought
human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of it in Hell
and eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He went ahead and
created human life as planned anyway.

If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems
unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive
for the fallen nature.

I've read through the first 2 dozen posts to be sure I understood what was being said, so here's the Reader's Digest version:

• The author is a Christian, not an atheist / skeptic / critic
• The author is arguing that if you view creating a planet knowing that you'll have to destroy/torture the sentient life it contains, you're a bad person (aka. a sinner)

I honestly encourage people who are interested in understanding this POV better to read through some of the thread. Still, a point of view like this - one which turns the concept of right and wrong on its head - is one of the reasons I reject religion in general (and Christianity in particular).

 

[docphin5]

After discovering I could post to the Christian sections of these forums, I decided to peruse them - and came across the following:



I've read through the first 2 dozen posts to be sure I understood what was being said, so here's the Reader's Digest version:

• The author is a Christian, not an atheist / skeptic / critic
• The author is arguing that if you view creating a planet knowing that you'll have to destroy/torture the sentient life it contains, you're a bad person (aka. a sinner)

I honestly encourage people who are interested in understanding this POV better to read through some of the thread. Still, a point of view like this - one which turns the concept of right and wrong on its head - is one of the reasons I reject religion in general (and Christianity in particular).

That is scary stuff! But I don't think it is wise to judge ALL religion based on a few cooks. There are a-theists with whacked out ideas too.

 

[Whateverman]

That is scary stuff! But I don't think it is wise to judge ALL religion based on a few cooks. There are a-theists with whacked out ideas too.

I don't disagree with either statement.

I'll only say that my current position on Christianity is based on far more than a single post in a conservative Christian forum. This one post just happens to be a good example of one of the principles that caused me to reject that religion: the inversion of morality.

 

[John t]

By whateverman
The creator, by means of precognition, knew in advance that if He brought human
life into existence as planned; He would eventually be destroying much of it in a
global deluge. He went ahead and created human life as planned anyway.

Also by means of precognition, the creator knew in advance that if He brought
human life into existence as planned; He would be torturing much of it in Hell
and eventually destroying much of it in a lake of brimstone. He went ahead and
created human life as planned anyway.

If the creator's decision to bring human life into existence as planned seems
unreasonable, and maybe even a touch fiendish and insane, then you test positive
for the fallen nature.

And you magically believe this sort of illogical tripe will excuse you from your final judgment, and permit you to enter heaven?

To quote the philosopher Shanaih Twain, "That don't impress me much." I do not believe that God is impressed, either.

 

[Nouveau]

And you magically believe this sort of illogical tripe will excuse you from your final judgment, and permit you to enter heaven?

The words you've quoted don't belong to the person you are responding to.

 

[J regia]

And you magically believe this sort of illogical tripe will excuse you from your final judgment, and permit you to enter heaven?

To quote the philosopher Shanaih Twain, "That don't impress me much." I do not believe that God is impressed, either.

Why didn't Moses or Noah or Abraham or David impress their god, since none of them went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7)?

 

[Whateverman]

And you magically believe

Belief is quite organic and natural; nothing magical about it.

this sort of illogical tripe

There's nothing illogical about anything I wrote (and for the record, you haven't quoted me in this thread). You're welcome to try demonstrating that what I've said fails logically, rather than simply declaring it and running away...

will excuse you from your final judgment, and permit you to enter heaven?

Final judgement, as if by a divine judge, is never going to happen. Heaven doesn't exist. I neither hope-for nor have-need-of excuses of any sort.

Run along now, Mom and Dad will know if you've been online for too long.

 

[Whateverman]

The words you've quoted don't belong to the person you are responding to.

Indeed. Those words belong to a Christian.

 

[Komodo]

After discovering I could post to the Christian sections of these forums, I decided to peruse them - and came across the following:



I've read through the first 2 dozen posts to be sure I understood what was being said, so here's the Reader's Digest version:

• The author is a Christian, not an atheist / skeptic / critic
• The author is arguing that if you view creating a planet knowing that you'll have to destroy/torture the sentient life it contains, you're a bad person (aka. a sinner)

I honestly encourage people who are interested in understanding this POV better to read through some of the thread. Still, a point of view like this - one which turns the concept of right and wrong on its head - is one of the reasons I reject religion in general (and Christianity in particular).

Moreover, in this version of Christianity, God caused us to be born in a fallen state; that fallen state, as he knew, makes us naturally reject the one true history of God and man; and thus makes us naturally reject the one and only means of avoiding eternal punishment; therefore, in this version of Christianity, God punishes us eternally for doing what he has made natural for us. And if this strikes you as compounding the irrationality and fiendishness of this portrait of God, well, that's just further evidence of your fallen nature.

A dogmatic Freudian, similarly, will tell you that if the claims of Freudian psychology strike you as unconvincing, that's just evidence of your unconscious resistance to learning the truth about your Oedipal nature.

ETA: If I had to quibble, I'd say that this is a good reason for not being a fundamentalist Christian, but not necessary a good reason in itself for being an atheist. (Many Christians, of course, would also want nothing to do with these propositions about sin nature and damnation, and neither would Jews, or people who believed in God but not in any revealed religion. )

 

[Mr Laurier]

And you magically believe this sort of illogical tripe will excuse you from your final judgment, and permit you to enter heaven?

To quote the philosopher Shanaih Twain, "That don't impress me much." I do not believe that God is impressed, either.

Nobody believes any such thing, so....

God doesn't matter.

 

[Reformedguy]

Nobody believes any such thing, so....

God doesn't matter.

Neither does anything else. Nothing matters.

 

[Whateverman]

Neither does anything else. Nothing matters.

Are you a Christian nihilist? I come across one every few years or so...

 

[Reformedguy]

Are you a Christian nihilist? I come across one every few years or so...

Nope. What meaning does life have as a atheist? I am generally curious

 

[Whateverman]

What meaning does life have as a atheist? I am generally curious

It has pretty much the same meaning as it does for a Christian: to find a purpose for existence, to survive and prosper financially/emotionally, to make the world a better place to live in, to understand things that I don't understand, to experience things I haven't experienced, to enjoy the enjoyable and avoid the undesirable, etc. All stuff the vast majority of Christians find meaning in, too.

 

[Reformedguy]

It has pretty much the same meaning as it does for a Christian: to find a purpose for existence, to survive and prosper financially/emotionally, to make the world a better place to live in, to understand things that I don't understand, to experience things I haven't experienced, to enjoy the enjoyable and avoid the undesirable, etc. All stuff the vast majority of Christians find meaning in, too.

But in the end what does it matter? 100 years from now people will not even know you existed

 

[John t]

The words you've quoted don't belong to the person you are responding to.

Who, then?

 

[Whateverman]

But in the end what does it matter? 100 years from now people will not even know you existed

And?

 

[Whateverman]

The words you've quoted don't belong to the person you are responding to.

Who, then?

Start by rereading the OP. Slowly.

 

[Reformedguy]

And?

And in the end it does not matter.

 

[Whateverman]

And in the end it does not matter.

According to you.

I've explained that it does matter, to me at least. And to most of the rest of the Christians on the planet, for the reasons I listed.