Anti crowd changes the meaning of words

G

guest1

Guest
Two words here that gets worn out by members of this forum . Sovereignly and regeneration. The former is never used by God and the latter is used twice, once in context to the restoration of the pristine creation and establishment of divine government and once in the context of restoring fallen man to the image of God.

Christians are born and exist in a relatively small window of time as it relates to the family of God and the fashioning of a bride for the last Adam, who is Jesus Christ, the son of God. It begins in Acts 2 with the giving of the Holy Spirit and ends with the translation of the church, the body of Christ, which every Christian is a member of. There are ages after this one when God will deal with men in different ways as he did in ages past.

So, within that context the answer to your question is "yes." But in that context only.
And the Trinity is never used by God in scripture so what ?
 
G

guest1

Guest
You didn't consider it foolishness. Are you a natural man?

Again. You're ripping 1 Cor 2 from its context and refusing to deal with the plan Scripture I've referenced. Scripture that is contrary to how you've applied 1 Cor 2.

Any person can respond to the Gospel just like you did. You're not special in comparison to your fellow man. Why do you consider yourself special?
I never said anything about special but God must by His grace enable the dead ( natural ) man understanding to respond to the gospel.
 

JDS

Well-known member
And the Trinity is never used by God in scripture so what ?
The trinity can be seen in all the Bible. The scriptures teach it. Sovereignty, OTOH, cannot, because this is not how the triune God presents himself. He is the creator and he has given men instructions because this is all his but he has made man to be stewards over the earth. He is in heaven. Men have liberty in his system but they will eventually give account of their stewardship.

The Psalmist says it best. Let’s read what he says about it.

Psalms 115:16
The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Two words here that gets worn out by members of this forum . Sovereignly and regeneration. The former is never used by God and the latter is used twice, once in context to the restoration of the pristine creation and establishment of divine government and once in the context of restoring fallen man to the image of God.

Christians are born and exist in a relatively small window of time as it relates to the family of God and the fashioning of a bride for the last Adam, who is Jesus Christ, the son of God. It begins in Acts 2 with the giving of the Holy Spirit and ends with the translation of the church, the body of Christ, which every Christian is a member of. There are ages after this one when God will deal with men in different ways as he did in ages past.

So, within that context the answer to your question is "yes." But in that context only.
God’s sovereignty is one of the most important principles in Christian theology, as well as one of its most hotly debated. Whether or not God is actually sovereign is usually not a topic of debate; all mainstream Christian sects agree that God is preeminent in power and authority. God’s sovereignty is a natural consequence of His omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. What’s subject to disagreement is to what extent God applies His sovereignty—specifically, how much control He exerts over the wills of men. When we speak of the sovereignty of God, we mean He rules the universe, but then the debate begins over when and where His control is direct and when it is indirect.

God is described in the Bible as all-powerful and all-knowing (Psalm 147:5), outside of time (Exodus 3:14; Psalm 90:2), and responsible for the creation of everything (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1). These divine traits set the minimum boundary for God’s sovereign control in the universe, which is to say that nothing in the universe occurs without God’s permission. God has the power and knowledge to prevent anything He chooses to prevent, so anything that does happen must, at the very least, be “allowed” by God.

At the same time, the Bible describes God as offering humanity choices (Deuteronomy 30:15–19), holding them personally responsible for their sins (Exodus 20:5), and being unhappy with some of their actions (Numbers 25:3). The fact that sin exists at all proves that not all things that occur are the direct actions of God, who is holy. The reality of human volition (and human accountability) sets the maximum boundary for God’s sovereign control over the universe, which is to say there is a point at which God chooses to allow things that He does not directly cause.

The fact that God is sovereign essentially means that He has the power, wisdom, and authority to do anything He chooses within His creation. Whether or not He actually exerts that level of control in any given circumstance is actually a completely different question. Often, the concept of divine sovereignty is oversimplified. We tend to assume that, if God is not directly, overtly, purposefully driving some event, then He is somehow not sovereign. The cartoon version of sovereignty depicts a God who must do anything that He can do, or else He is not truly sovereign.

Of course, such a cartoonish view of God’s sovereignty is logically false. If a man were to put an ant in a bowl, the “sovereignty” of the man over the ant is not in doubt. The ant may try to crawl out, and the man may not want this to happen. But the man is not forced to crush the ant, drown it, or pick it up. The man, for reasons of his own, may choose to let the ant crawl away, but the man is still in control. There is a difference between allowing the ant to leave the bowl and helplessly watching as it escapes. The cartoon version of God’s sovereignty implies that, if the man is not actively holding the ant inside the bowl, then he must be unable to keep it in there at all.

The illustration of the man and the ant is at least a vague parallel to God’s sovereignty over mankind. God has the ability to do anything, to take action and intervene in any situation, but He often chooses to act indirectly or to allow certain things for reasons of His own. His will is furthered in any case. God’s “sovereignty” means that He is absolute in authority and unrestricted in His supremacy. Everything that happens is, at the very least, the result of God’s permissive will. This holds true even if certain specific things are not what He would prefer. The right of God to allow mankind’s free choices is just as necessary for true sovereignty as His ability to enact His will, wherever and however He chooses.got?

hope this helps !!!
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Two words here that gets worn out by members of this forum . Sovereignly and regeneration. The former is never used by God and the latter is used twice, once in context to the restoration of the pristine creation and establishment of divine government and once in the context of restoring fallen man to the image of God.
"Sovereignty" I hope you realize that everything that God says, everything that God does..........is a sovereign word or act.

Now , I choose to specifically use the word "sovereign" pertaining to regeneration because some think man has something to do with the act. That is not so.

Do you believe there is a Book of Life, that has all the names of God's children written down within and that it was written before the foundation of the world?
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Sorry you don't get to ask more questions without answering mine. That is now how things work here.

Was Cain a child of God ? yes or no
You never answered the first question I asked......

Are you claiming that upon the sovereign act of regeneration that the now regenerate immediately/simultaneously has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
 
G

guest1

Guest
You never answered the first question I asked......

Are you claiming that upon the sovereign act of regeneration that the now regenerate immediately/simultaneously has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Do you know the meaning of regeneration?

If not do yourself a favor and look up the meaning and you can avoid asking your silly questions and making up your own strawman arguments to support your heretical views.

hope this helps !!!
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
Do you know the meaning of regeneration?

If not do yourself a favor and look up the meaning and you can avoid asking your silly questions and making up your own strawman arguments to support your heretical views.

hope this helps !!!
Listen....you took exception to my writing that receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit is conditional. You claimed all children of God have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So I asked...

Upon the sovereign act of regeneration......does the now regenerate immediately/ simultaneously have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Will you please answer that question? It should be a simple yes or no.
 
G

guest1

Guest
Listen....you took exception to my writing that receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit is conditional. You claimed all children of God have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So I asked...

Upon the sovereign act of regeneration......does the now regenerate immediately/ simultaneously have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Will you please answer that question? It should be a simple yes or no.
So simple to answer yet you NEVER do yourself .

things that make you go hmmmmm

Cain ?

oops...............
 

JDS

Well-known member
God’s sovereignty is one of the most important principles in Christian theology, as well as one of its most hotly debated. Whether or not God is actually sovereign is usually not a topic of debate; all mainstream Christian sects agree that God is preeminent in power and authority. God’s sovereignty is a natural consequence of His omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. What’s subject to disagreement is to what extent God applies His sovereignty—specifically, how much control He exerts over the wills of men. When we speak of the sovereignty of God, we mean He rules the universe, but then the debate begins over when and where His control is direct and when it is indirect.

God is described in the Bible as all-powerful and all-knowing (Psalm 147:5), outside of time (Exodus 3:14; Psalm 90:2), and responsible for the creation of everything (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1). These divine traits set the minimum boundary for God’s sovereign control in the universe, which is to say that nothing in the universe occurs without God’s permission. God has the power and knowledge to prevent anything He chooses to prevent, so anything that does happen must, at the very least, be “allowed” by God.

At the same time, the Bible describes God as offering humanity choices (Deuteronomy 30:15–19), holding them personally responsible for their sins (Exodus 20:5), and being unhappy with some of their actions (Numbers 25:3). The fact that sin exists at all proves that not all things that occur are the direct actions of God, who is holy. The reality of human volition (and human accountability) sets the maximum boundary for God’s sovereign control over the universe, which is to say there is a point at which God chooses to allow things that He does not directly cause.

The fact that God is sovereign essentially means that He has the power, wisdom, and authority to do anything He chooses within His creation. Whether or not He actually exerts that level of control in any given circumstance is actually a completely different question. Often, the concept of divine sovereignty is oversimplified. We tend to assume that, if God is not directly, overtly, purposefully driving some event, then He is somehow not sovereign. The cartoon version of sovereignty depicts a God who must do anything that He can do, or else He is not truly sovereign.

Of course, such a cartoonish view of God’s sovereignty is logically false. If a man were to put an ant in a bowl, the “sovereignty” of the man over the ant is not in doubt. The ant may try to crawl out, and the man may not want this to happen. But the man is not forced to crush the ant, drown it, or pick it up. The man, for reasons of his own, may choose to let the ant crawl away, but the man is still in control. There is a difference between allowing the ant to leave the bowl and helplessly watching as it escapes. The cartoon version of God’s sovereignty implies that, if the man is not actively holding the ant inside the bowl, then he must be unable to keep it in there at all.

The illustration of the man and the ant is at least a vague parallel to God’s sovereignty over mankind. God has the ability to do anything, to take action and intervene in any situation, but He often chooses to act indirectly or to allow certain things for reasons of His own. His will is furthered in any case. God’s “sovereignty” means that He is absolute in authority and unrestricted in His supremacy. Everything that happens is, at the very least, the result of God’s permissive will. This holds true even if certain specific things are not what He would prefer. The right of God to allow mankind’s free choices is just as necessary for true sovereignty as His ability to enact His will, wherever and however He chooses.got?

hope this helps !!!
The only reason there is a debate is because of your obfuscation. For Christians reading their Bibles regularly the extent of God's so called sovereignty would not be an issue. The reason I know this is because God has not used the word nor has he addressed it as a biblical doctrine that needs to be explained and expanded upon.

You have not used a single passage where the word even shows up in our bible. It is another prop up doctrine invented by the John Calvinists and the author of it is not God.

Youi need to repent of this doctrine.
 

Oldsaint24

Well-known member
So simple to answer yet you NEVER do yourself .

things that make you go hmmmmm

Cain ?

oops...............
Total evasion....I have no problem discussing Cain......write an op.....I will gladly participate. That end that issue.

Now.....why won't you explain your theology? What are you afraid of? I asked a very simple question. How do you expect to learn anything if you will not confront or acknowledge error? Call me out in the op......that would be fine with me. I ave no fear or concern about my theology.

Again . When the sovereign act of regeneration happens.......is the now regenerate individual immediately/simultaneously indwelled with the Holy Spirit? Yes or No?
 

JDS

Well-known member
Do you believe there is a Book of Life, that has all the names of God's children written down within and that it was written before the foundation of the world?
I would believe that if the Bible actually said it. I think it says they were written "from" the foundation of the world. There is a difference between the words from and before.
 

JDS

Well-known member
"Sovereignty" I hope you realize that everything that God says, everything that God does..........is a sovereign word or act.
Everything I say and everything I do is not a sovereign act of God. It is a sovereign act of God that he does not express himself with the word sovereign. It is a sovereign act of you own will that you do.
 
G

guest1

Guest
The only reason there is a debate is because of your obfuscation. For Christians reading their Bibles regularly the extent of God's so called sovereignty would not be an issue. The reason I know this is because God has not used the word nor has he addressed it as a biblical doctrine that needs to be explained and expanded upon.

You have not used a single passage where the word even shows up in our bible. It is another prop up doctrine invented by the John Calvinists and the author of it is not God.

Youi need to repent of this doctrine.
Trinity ring any bells ?

Same scenario as it’s IMPLIED in scripture.
 

JDS

Well-known member
What you teach about the Trinity is not true, not close to being true.
This thread is about the sovereignty of God, which is an addition by Calvinists to the word of God. If you want to talk about the trinity then post a thread because I love to talk about the trinity and do so often on these various threads. Your idea about the sovereignty of God includes determinism and the total absence of a free will of man. It has God choosing a few before the creation to save and masterminding all the evil and corruption and sin in our world. It makes election the foundation of Christianity and the cross of Christ a necessary part of the faith but no more so than the other parts. If man were totally depraved in the manner in which Calvinists claim, then Jesus Christ would have had no choice about becoming our sacrifice for sin, because he became like us, yet without sin and submitted himself willingly to the will of God.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Brother, it isn't good to consider yourself part of unwilling few that required a special impartation of knowledge that God supposedly "refuses" to willing share with everyone.

God is willing. It is man that plays the fool. Not God.
Two unsaved stand side by side and one is cut to the heart and repents, and the other is not cut to the heart.

You say the wisdom of God that is foolishness to those who are perishing is heresy, then you believe Paul to be an heretic.
 
G

guest1

Guest
This thread is about the sovereignty of God, which is an addition by Calvinists to the word of God. If you want to talk about the trinity then post a thread because I love to talk about the trinity and do so often on these various threads. Your idea about the sovereignty of God includes determinism and the total absence of a free will of man. It has God choosing a few before the creation to save and masterminding all the evil and corruption and sin in our world. It makes election the foundation of Christianity and the cross of Christ a necessary part of the faith but no more so than the other parts. If man were totally depraved in the manner in which Calvinists claim, then Jesus Christ would have had no choice about becoming our sacrifice for sin, because he became like us, yet without sin and submitted himself willingly to the will of God.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on [him] the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto [his] brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things [pertaining] to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Was Jesus Impeccable as a man walking this earth for 33 years ? Yes or no

Was Jesus omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent as a man walking this earth for 33 years ? Yes or no
 
T

TomFL

Guest
First of all I am not speaking about Christians but about children of God.

And why you want to ignore the existence of naughty disobedient unforgiving immoral covetous foolish etc. children of God and how the Father deals with them is baffling. But you have the freewill to do that.
In the new covenant Christian and child of God are synonamous

One must be born of God to be his child (tekna)

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 
Top