Apologetics vs One's Integrity

shnarkle

Well-known member
.
It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of
forthrightly agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the
defensive Christian waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly
concealing the unspeakable truth that they too have sometimes entertained
the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So;
if perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad
man?


Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He
wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly
what He knows already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or
tiresome rhetoric, no, it had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better
be honest.
_
I see your point. I'm not a Christian so I have a different perspective than they would have. I see God as being beyond my feeble moral understanding. I don't see a transcendent God descending to my moral round table to begin with.

Even so, there is just war theory/doctrine, and in the US, it doesn't exist anymore. Instead, it is more about whether or not a war can be won. Given that's the mentality of a lot of countries these days, I'm not seeing how the biblical god is doing any worse, especially given the fact that the biblical god wins all of his wars.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
so you're saying that God by asking us questions sets us up for a test. Why should
he do that to us some day?

The questions themselves don't really matter all that much. What matters most is
whether you answer them honestly; because in order to establish a productive
rapport with God, people have to be transparent rather than secretive.

Now of course God already knows in advance how you will answer His questions
just as He already knew in advance whether Abraham would go thru with sacrificing
his son Isaac. But knowing is different than actually watching as an on-scene eye
witness, and/or talking with you one-on-one.

Just as Jesus most likely knew in advance how Peter would answer when asked how
he felt about Jesus. But the Lord wasn't satisfied till Peter came out with his feelings
face to face.
_
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Below are some additional questions that God is likely to ask along with the two
listed in the OP.

"Was there ever a time when you felt that I should've stepped in to prevent the
Serpent from tempting Eve?"

"Was there ever a time when you resented My control over your life?"

"Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

"I knew in advance that I would regret creating humankind, and that I would be
drowning most of it in a global deluge. Yet I went ahead and created people anyway.
Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something wrong with me for
doing that?"

» Please do not respond to these questions with an apologetic. A nice crisp Yes or a
No will suffice. I'm not looking for explanations; I'm looking for honesty.
_
 
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Rockson

Active member
.
Below are some additional questions that God is likely to ask along with the two
listed in the OP.

"Was there ever a time when you felt that I should've stepped in to prevent the
Serpent from tempting Eve?"

"Was there ever a time when you resented My control over your life?"

"Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

"I knew in advance that I would regret creating humankind, and that I would be
drowning most of it in a global deluge. Yet I went ahead and created people anyway.
Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something wrong with me for
doing that?"

» Please do not respond to these questions with an apologetic. A nice crisp Yes or a
No will suffice. I'm not looking for explanations; I'm looking for honesty.
_

And what if the honest answer one might give is they're not sure or that they don't know? You're not allowing them that third option? You should consider there's probably lots of people, saints of God about the Hell question. They may not truly be able to answer YES or NO but they might have times where they've wondered about it. In wondering about it they take up study on other peoples writings and opinions on the matter and they've reached NO conclusion to say a YES or NO about the issue. They genuinely could be neutral on the subject. Not sure why you're not allowing for that being perhaps THEIR HONEST opinion.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
.
Below are some additional questions that God is likely to ask along with the two
listed in the OP.

"Was there ever a time when you felt that I should've stepped in to prevent the
Serpent from tempting Eve?"

"Was there ever a time when you resented My control over your life?"

"Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

"I knew in advance that I would regret creating humankind, and that I would be
drowning most of it in a global deluge. Yet I went ahead and created people anyway.
Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something wrong with me for
doing that?"

» Please do not respond to these questions with an apologetic. A nice crisp Yes or a
No will suffice. I'm not looking for explanations; I'm looking for honesty.
_
I'm a born again Christian not a skeptic so the answers to your questions, not Gods is a resounding NO.

God doesn't ask those questions of us.

BTW- this is the APOLEGETICS forum so requiring a non apologetic response is an oxymoron.

The post belongs in another forum, not this one.

hope this helps !!!
 

Dant01

Active member
.
I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much pleasure as I look forward
to a root canal; and like a root canal; I will be very glad when it's over because I
suspect that the grilling we're all facing won't be pleasant.

There are many questions in life that we can brush off as too personal or with an "I
don't know" but God can't be brushed off. If we try, He will only dig in His heels
and force the issue till we finally break.
_
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
.
I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much pleasure as I look forward
to a root canal; and like a root canal; I will be very glad when it's over because I
suspect that the grilling we're all facing won't be pleasant.

There are many questions in life that we can brush off as too personal or with an "I
don't know" but God can't be brushed off. If we try, He will only dig in His heels
and force the issue till we finally break.
_

It's just a spirit of offense attached to the sin nature. Pray for deliverance and repentance now, don't wait 'til heaven.

Why forfeit being close to God now? He can be very affectionate.

"Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you."
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Pray for deliverance and repentance now, don't wait 'til heaven. Why forfeit being
close to God now? He can be very affectionate."Draw near to God, and he will
draw near to you."

Please; let's not be using this thread as a venue for evangelism; it wasn't set up for
that purpose. Let's stay on-topic; alright?
_
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
.
I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much pleasure as I look forward
to a root canal; and like a root canal; I will be very glad when it's over because I
suspect that the grilling we're all facing won't be pleasant.

There are many questions in life that we can brush off as too personal or with an "I
don't know" but God can't be brushed off. If we try, He will only dig in His heels
and force the issue till we finally break.
_


Most apt.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
.
Please; let's not be using this thread as a venue for evangelism; it wasn't set up for
that purpose. Let's stay on-topic; alright?
_

I assume you're a Christian, so that's not evangelism. Is the translation then: you want to post a thread correcting others, but not take correction yourself? Because that seems quite hypocritical, doesn't it? If what I posted wasn't on the thread topic of facing one's bad feelings towards God, then nothing is. Or do you just want all your threads to be blog posts with thousands of your posts but never any input... I'm not meaning to be unkind, but you seem to have no self-reflection. I'm telling you the hard things because it's Christian love, and if it's not appreciated, maybe you should avoid a Christian forum altogether.

Peace in Christ anyways.
 

Dant01

Active member
I assume you're a Christian, so that's not evangelism. Is the translation then: you want to post a thread correcting others, but not take correction yourself? Because that seems quite hypocritical, doesn't it? If what I posted wasn't on the thread topic of facing one's bad feelings towards God, then nothing is. Or do you just want all your threads to be blog posts with thousands of your posts but never any input... I'm not meaning to be unkind, but you seem to have no self-reflection. I'm telling you the hard things because it's Christian love, and if it's not appreciated, maybe you should avoid a Christian forum altogether.

Peace in Christ anyways.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
I assume you're a Christian, so that's not evangelism. Is the translation then: you
want to post a thread correcting others, but not take correction yourself? Because
that seems quite hypocritical, doesn't it? If what I posted wasn't on the thread topic
of facing one's bad feelings towards God, then nothing is. Or do you just want all
your threads to be blog posts with thousands of your posts but never any input...
I'm not meaning to be unkind, but you seem to have no self-reflection. I'm telling
you the hard things because it's Christian love, and if it's not appreciated, maybe
you should avoid a Christian forum altogether.

Unsolicited spiritual counseling is off-topic on this thread.

Please review the OP before continuing.

Thank You.
_
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
.
Below are some additional questions that God is likely to ask along with the two
listed in the OP.

"Was there ever a time when you felt that I should've stepped in to prevent the
Serpent from tempting Eve?"

"Was there ever a time when you resented My control over your life?"

"Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

"I knew in advance that I would regret creating humankind, and that I would be
drowning most of it in a global deluge. Yet I went ahead and created people anyway.
Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something wrong with me for
doing that?"

» Please do not respond to these questions with an apologetic. A nice crisp Yes or a
No will suffice. I'm not looking for explanations; I'm looking for honesty.
_
What if God asks you why did you think you were saved while walking this earth ?

How will you answer Him ?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
.


Unsolicited spiritual counseling is off-topic on this thread.

Please review the OP before continuing.

Thank You.
_

Posting criticism on a Christian website IS soliciting spiritual counseling.

Please quit the forum if you want no feedback.

Thank you.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
What if God asks you why did you think you were saved while walking this earth ?
How will you answer Him ?

Your inquiry doesn't belong here as this thread wasn't set up for discussing the plan
of salvation, rather: for examining the integrity of Christians who defend their
religion against skeptics by means of arguments called apologetics.
_
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
.


Your inquiry doesn't belong here as this thread wasn't set up for discussing the plan
of salvation, rather: for examining the integrity of Christians who defend their
religion against skeptics by means of arguments called apologetics.
_
It is an integrity question you will be asked . An actual real one whereas yours are nothing but hypothetical humanistic questions by a skeptic. I’m a born again believer so your questions are absurd as they are non issues with my REAL faith in Jesus.

Read Job 38-40.

next…….
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
.
Below are some additional questions that God is likely to ask along with the two
listed in the OP.

"Was there ever a time when you felt that I should've stepped in to prevent the
Serpent from tempting Eve?"

"Was there ever a time when you resented My control over your life?"

"Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

"I knew in advance that I would regret creating humankind, and that I would be
drowning most of it in a global deluge. Yet I went ahead and created people anyway.
Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something wrong with me for
doing that?"

» Please do not respond to these questions with an apologetic. A nice crisp Yes or a
No will suffice. I'm not looking for explanations; I'm looking for honesty.
_

1) Not really my thing.

Guess some one had some reasons for doing such.

2) If you are controlling my life ..... I have no life.

Should I resent such ..... not really if you don't want to live ... you do not want to live.

3) "god" ... that is your thingy.

How is it going?

It is not that I resent it ..... simply I do not want it.

4) Not really .... seems like you wanted another try at the plate.

Maybe you did it before and wanted another go round?
 

John t

Super Member
It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can give you
a direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.
Do you realize the inherent bias of your statement?

Do you realize that there is a gigantic logical error in your assertion because the sole measurement device you use is your apprehension of how matters work, especially in the discussion of theological matters?

Here is something that I know is going to "annoy you off"; nevertheless it is true, and it explains how and why you are actually incapable of having a rational discussion of things regarding Christianity no matter how much you attempt to adhere to principles of rational discussion. Reasonable discussion is possible between us, and that is a whole different matter.

2 Corinthians 4:
3 But if indeed our gospel is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing,
4 among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they would not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
5 For we do not proclaim ourselves, but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your slaves for the sake of Jesus.​
6 For God who said, “Light will shine out of darkness,” is the one who has shined in our hearts for the enlightenment of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.​
The plain fact of the matter is that because you are not a Christian, you will never understand. Therefore you are spiritually blind, and unless Holy Spirit leads you to salvation in Jesus Christ, you will never be able to see spiritual things. Please note that I am not flaunting being a Christian, nor putting you down because you are not a Christian. What I am doing is simply laying out the truth of the matter, and quoting Scripture as my authority for being able to post that.

Other verses saying the same thing include:

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 16:17
And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

When a rational skeptic...
This is an oxymoron because of what I posted previously. Even as Isaiah invited the Jews to reason with him, he knew it was impossible

Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

He said that because reasonable discussion with God is spiritually discerned, and means seeing things as God sees things. Whatever God does is holy and correct because God can not do otherwise than His ontological being requires. One part of that is seeing ourselves as sinful beings not placing our own sensibilities above what God does.
When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average
Christian typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive.
Such an assertion is contrary to the nature of a Just, Righteous and Holy God. It is also a demonstration of your own spiritual blindness to post that blasphemy. It does not conform to the nature of God as He revealed Himself in Scripture.

It also demonstrated your own reliance on your own thought process, and not God's omniscience. He sees more and better than any of us do.

I am hopeful that you do not see what I posted as insulting. I am accurately quoting Scriptures, and I certainly hope that you can see the gigantic lack of spiritual discernment there is in the OP.
 
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