Appointed to Eternal Life !

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TomFL

Guest
If you don't believe in irresistible Grace then you don't believe in Grace at all. Grace reigns through righteousness. Rom 5:21

that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

Grace reigns is more effective than sin reign unto death.
Sorry force is not gracious

You need a new dictionary

The term irresistible grace never appears nor is it taught in the bible
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry force is not gracious

You need a new dictionary

The term irresistible grace never appears nor is it taught in the bible
Like I said if you don't believe in irresistible Grace you don't believe in Grace, not the Grace of God. You can forget about that!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
So you believe God and His grace can be resisted? And what, do tell is resisting/overruling God, if not one's libertarian free will? You either believe that God's calling and His gifts are irresistible/irrevocable (Peter said that), or you believe men can resist/overrule God. There is no middle ground here. In the Greek, Ephesians 1:3-14 are all one sentence. There are no breaks within, so it is all related. You keep breaking it all up. So the individuals chosen in verse 4 are saved in verse

You are mixing two different things

God's grace can be and has been resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

There is no middle ground here. In the Greek, Ephesians 1:3-14 are all one sentence. There are no breaks within, so it is all related. You keep breaking it all up. So the individuals chosen in verse 4 are saved in verse 5. All one sentence. "
4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"" (Young's Literal Translation)
Look at the structure. God chose something (chose us in him), to do something (for our being holy and unblemished before Him) because He did something (in love, having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself) for some reason (according to the good pleasure of His will). So God chose us in Christ to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, so that we might live holy and unblemished lives before Him. [I shouldn't say this, but I want to see you try to explain away that "having foreordained us" when it is solidly connected to Ephesians 1:4.

Yes he chose those in Christ

Those that are in Christ

Not men arbitrarily selected to be in Christ as you suppose

He chose those in Christ to be holy and blameless

Men are in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

There is nothing at all about unconditional election to salvation in the passage

That is a promise to those in Christ


Um...what? You do realize if God looked forward in time and chose people because He saw that they chose Him and got saved, that the resulting paradox would destroy the universe, right?

Wrong you lack understanding in this matter

It is not that God looks forward in time to learn anything.

If that were the case God would not be omniscient

rather He knows what might happen on all possible contingencies
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Like I said if you don't believe in irresistible Grace you don't believe in Grace, not the Grace of God. You can forget about that!
You can say whatever you like

The bible however says no such thing

which just proves you have a theology which cannot be gained from the bible
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are mixing two different things

God's grace can be and has been resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

There is no middle ground here. In the Greek, Ephesians 1:3-14 are all one sentence. There are no breaks within, so it is all related. You keep breaking it all up. So the individuals chosen in verse 4 are saved in verse 5. All one sentence. "
4 according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,
5 having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"" (Young's Literal Translation)
Look at the structure. God chose something (chose us in him), to do something (for our being holy and unblemished before Him) because He did something (in love, having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself) for some reason (according to the good pleasure of His will). So God chose us in Christ to be adopted as sons through Jesus Christ, so that we might live holy and unblemished lives before Him. [I shouldn't say this, but I want to see you try to explain away that "having foreordained us" when it is solidly connected to Ephesians 1:4.

Yes he chose those in Christ

Those that are in Christ

Not men arbitrarily selected to be in Christ as you suppose

He chose those in Christ to be holy and blameless

Men are in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

There is nothing at all about unconditional election to salvation in the passage

That is a promise to those in Christ



Um...what? You do realize if God looked forward in time and chose people because He saw that they chose Him and got saved, that the resulting paradox would destroy the universe, right?

Wrong you lack understanding in this matter

It is not that God looks forward in time to learn anything.

If that were the case God would not be omniscient

rather He knows what might happen on all possible contingencies
Not one verse says God's Grace can be resisted. Grace reigns through righteousness.

You have more of a chance to resist death than to resist Grace. Grace overcomes death.

You have cheapen grace!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Not one verse says God's Grace can be resisted. Grace reigns through righteousness.

You have more of a chance to resist death than to resist Grace. Grace overcomes death.

You have cheapen grace!
Scripture just showed otherwise


Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture just showed otherwise


Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
Lol it's in your imagination. Grace reigns omnipotently!
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Lol it's in your imagination. Grace reigns omnipotently!
No its plain scripture

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No its plain scripture

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
You don't know Grace reigns through righteousness through Jesus Christ.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
You don't know Grace reigns through righteousness through Jesus Christ.
You dodged the facts

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
You dodged the facts

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

God's grace is successfully resisted every time they commit a sin.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You dodged the facts

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
Here is the fact Rom 5:21

that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Here is the fact Rom 5:21

that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Says nothing at all about grace being irresistible

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Says nothing at all about grace being irresistible

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”
Grace reigns supreme moreso than sin and death. Can the day of your death be resisted?
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Grace reigns supreme moreso than sin and death. Can the day of your death be resisted?
First you use rationization rather than exegsis

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

then you ignore the fact that grace is not applied until one believes

and that is where the resistance resides
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
First you use rationization rather than exegsis

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

then you ignore the fact that grace is not applied until one believes

and that is where the resistance resides
No Grace reigns through righteousness Rom 5 21
 
T

TomFL

Guest
No Grace reigns through righteousness Rom 5 21
You ignored evidence again

First you use rationization rather than exegsis

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

then you ignore the fact that grace is not applied until one believes

and that is where the resistance resides
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You ignored evidence again

First you use rationization rather than exegsis

Grace may be resisted

Acts 7:51 —KJV
“¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.”

Heb. 12:25 —KJV
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:”

2 Th. 2:10 —KJV
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

Heb. 10:29 —KJV
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

then you ignore the fact that grace is not applied until one believes

and that is where the resistance resides
You don't know what reigns mean. The word is basileuō:

metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control
 
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