Are Messianics trinitarian?

so when God is referred to in "He" sort of terms in Scripture, I will usually associate that with God the Son specifically
unless it is clarified in some way as the Father or the Sprit

I change this -
I think when God is referred to in general or "He" terms, maybe it's just about God in general
or maybe can be the Father specifically
or "the God of Israel" as the Father, as the Father has a unique relationship with the nation of Israel

when it's an appearance of God/the Angel of the Lord/or "He" and when prophetic about the Messiah
I would view it about the Son

when it says the Spirit, then about the Spirit

I'm not sure "God Most High" is just about the Father only
could be God in general IMO

-

"I watched till a throne was erected in the pleasant land (land of Israel)
and the Lord (Ancient of Days) of the sheep sat on it, and He (the Messiah)
took all the sealed books, and opened the books..."
...and He said to that man (Michael) who wrote before Him...blah blah"
- book of Enoch, about the Millenium/Kingdom reign

I don't think the Father is being referenced here
only the Son, (and His scribe, the Archangel)

in Enoch,
lambs are Jewish believers in Messiah specifically
sheep are Jews (secular or Rabbinic religious)
goats are gentiles
gentiles can be also specified as eagles (Rome) vultures, ravens (Muslims), kites etc.
 
the Son and the Spirit
are "the God of Israel" also

like if it was the voice of the Father that was heard at Sinai (possible to me, as it was heard at Jesus' baptism)
but when Moses went to meet with God face to face, it was the Son
and Moses believed what the Son told him on behalf of the Father
because Moses had the Holy Spirit involved with him as an Israelite believer and a prophet

and yes,
the Father elected/chose those that would be given to the Son as His flock/Church (or any believer in any Age)
and He created/chose Israel to be a special sheep flock nation for Himself among the nations
 
the Son and the Spirit
are "the God of Israel" also

like if it was the voice of the Father that was heard at Sinai (possible to me, as it was heard at Jesus' baptism)
but when Moses went to meet with God face to face, it was the Son
and Moses believed what the Son told him on behalf of the Father
because Moses had the Holy Spirit involved with him as an Israelite believer and a prophet

and yes,
the Father elected/chose those that would be given to the Son as His flock/Church (or any believer in any Age)
and He created/chose Israel to be a special sheep flock nation for Himself among the nations
How do you know the above bolded to be true?
 
How do you know the above bolded to be true?
"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God;"
"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

"In the beginning was the Word (Messiah), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God..."
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made..."

...
"He is the image of the invisible God..."
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

as long as the Father has existed, the Son has existed "I Am the first and the last"
when God makes an appearance, it is the Son
 
and Enoch seems to put to rest any notion of the Son/Jesus being Michael
one is an uncreated eternal Person, and the other is a created heavenly person

has Michael ever seen the Father? I think not
does he see God? I think he sees and directly knows God the Son
 
"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God;"
"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

"In the beginning was the Word (Messiah), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God..."
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made..."

...
"He is the image of the invisible God..."
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

as long as the Father has existed, the Son has existed "I Am the first and the last"
when God makes an appearance, it is the Son
Yes, the son has been with the Father since the beginning. But none of your scripture says he is part of a Godhead. Why do people insist that it must be this way? Why can't Jesus be who he said he is...the son of God who was sent to redeem "whomsoever will?"
 
and Enoch seems to put to rest any notion of the Son/Jesus being Michael
one is an uncreated eternal Person, and the other is a created heavenly person

has Michael ever seen the Father? I think not
does he see God? I think he sees and directly knows God the Son
I certainly don't think Jesus is Michael.
 
Yes, the son has been with the Father since the beginning. But none of your scripture says he is part of a Godhead. Why do people insist that it must be this way? Why can't Jesus be who he said he is...the son of God who was sent to redeem "whomsoever will?"
Jesus/the Messiah IS the son of God
born a man of the will of God, not mankind parents

but Jesus is an eternal person incarnate in a mankind body (man as a kinsman redeemer, and only God can be our Savior and only God is sinless)
a person said to have been with God (the Father) and also was/is God

the Father
the Son (and then incarnate as Jesus)
the Spirit
are each described as doing things only God does or can do
given titles names etc. that only apply to God
etc.

and to each are applied the characteristics that define Personhood
and they are in relationship with each other, eternally

can we define "Godhead" vs. just "God"...(?)
 
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Jesus/the Messiah IS the son of God
born a man of the will of God, not mankind parents

but Jesus is an eternal person incarnate in a mankind body (man as a kinsman redeemer, and only God can be our Savior and only God is sinless)
a person said to have been with God (the Father) and also was/is God

the Father
the Son (and then incarnate as Jesus)
the Spirit
are each described as doing things only God does or can do
given titles names etc. that only apply to God
etc.

and to each are applied the characteristics that define Personhood
and they are in relationship with each other, eternally

can we define "Godhead" vs. just "God"...(?)
You're trying to.
 
"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God;"
"No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

"In the beginning was the Word (Messiah), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God..."
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made..."

...
"He is the image of the invisible God..."
"For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist."

as long as the Father has existed, the Son has existed "I Am the first and the last"
when God makes an appearance, it is the Son
You are confounding the Holy Spirit upon the human, with the human Jesus. Hence the “anointed Jesus”, aka, Jesus Christ. The “Christ” is not Jesus’ last name but instead the Spirit upon him.

Therefore, it is the Spirit that was before all things, creating all things, just as the Hebrew wisdom literature describes. How could a human soul have existed before it was born? Oh, let me guess your answer, God can do anything you imagine. If the Bible says it then it must be literally true. No synthesis, no interpretation required. It just happened the exact way that you read it happened. Is that not cool, you think. Now run off to your christian rock concert where you will forget any questions or doubts and feel good about what you choose to believe. I know because I have been there myself. I too was once medicated by christian apologists and concerts and music ministry to feel good about believing nonsense. Nonsense that does not hold up to history, archaeology and reality.
 
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to love Him don't we have to completely believe Him?

"...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ blah blah"
"If you love me, keep My commandments.."
"I and my Father are one"
""We are not stoning You for any good work," said the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God."
 
Yes, the son has been with the Father since the beginning. But none of your scripture says he is part of a Godhead. Why do people insist that it must be this way? Why can't Jesus be who he said he is...the son of God who was sent to redeem "whomsoever will?"
The Lord Jesus Christ is the great I AM of the OT. He is God, and anyone who rejects Him as God is unsaved.

Exodus 3:13,14 (VW)
13 And Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the sons of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they say to me, What is His name? what shall I say to them?
14 And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

John 8:23,24
(VW)
23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

John 8:57,58
(VW)
57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM.
 
The Lord Jesus Christ is the great I AM of the OT. He is God, and anyone who rejects Him as God is unsaved.

Exodus 3:13,14 (VW)
13 And Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the sons of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you, and they say to me, What is His name? what shall I say to them?
14 And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

John 8:23,24
(VW)
23 And He said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.

John 8:57,58
(VW)
57 Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM.
So Dave...how does your scripture teach the trinity that is taught in Evangelistic churches?
If you want to understand our relationship with God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, study John 17.
Yes, Jesus was with God from the beginning.
Don't cast stones, friend...especially when you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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