Are non Christians "better" than Christians?

[Unknown Soldier]

One issue many unbelievers, atheists in particular, raise often is the allegation that Christians are somehow less moral than they are. We are often accused of deceit, hypocrisy, fanaticism, and persecution. The implied "cure for these ills" is to forsake Christian beliefs and any theistic beliefs. Get rid of God, and enter the atheistic utopia of love, justice, rational thought, peace, and freedom!

Not. While there is no doubt that many who identify as Christians have committed heinous acts, history tells us that forsaking the faith is no cure for the world's ills. Atheism, for example, has failed miserably to deliver on its promises. I've known plenty of atheists who can be deceitful, hypocritical, and fanatical and who will abuse those who disagree with them.

And here I thought that only Christians were like that!

 

[Gary Mac]

One issue many unbelievers, atheists in particular, raise often is the allegation that Christians are somehow less moral than they are. We are often accused of deceit, hypocrisy, fanaticism, and persecution. The implied "cure for these ills" is to forsake Christian beliefs and any theistic beliefs. Get rid of God, and enter the atheistic utopia of love, justice, rational thought, peace, and freedom!

Not. While there is no doubt that many who identify as Christians have committed heinous acts, history tells us that forsaking the faith is no cure for the world's ills. Atheism, for example, has failed miserably to deliver on its promises. I've known plenty of atheists who can be deceitful, hypocritical, and fanatical and who will abuse those who disagree with them.

And here I thought that only Christians were like that!

It is common among religious sects, denominations. One says this is the truth, another says false this is the truth, yet another says your both wrong this is the truth.

Or denominations has no intent in being as Jesus was in the Father, they have their own gods they can rule by the laws the establish for a belief instead of the reality of God actually manifest Himself in you as He did in Adam, Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room and all today who has seen Him as He really is for we who has seen Him as He is is like Him. 1 John 3.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It is common among religious sects, denominations. One says this is the truth, another says false this is the truth, yet another says your both wrong this is the truth.

Yes. Christians tend to argue about who's right and who's wrong. I don't know what that has to do with the OP, but it is very true.

Or denominations has no intent in being as Jesus was in the Father, they have their own gods they can rule by the laws the establish for a belief instead of the reality of God actually manifest Himself in you as He did in Adam, Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room and all today who has seen Him as He really is for we who has seen Him as He is is like Him. 1 John 3.

As always, Gary, you explain everything so clearly and informatively. But allow me to add that God wants the Spirit in us as we are in God who is outside of the Cosmos as they were inside the tent, Joshua 7:21, and His glory is within Himself as He has done unto you today as with Moses.

 

[Gary Mac]

Yes. Christians tend to argue about who's right and who's wrong. I don't know what that has to do with the OP, but it is very true.

As always, Gary, you explain everything so clearly and informatively. But allow me to add that God wants the Spirit in us as we are in God who is outside of the Cosmos as they were inside the tent, Joshua 7:21, and His glory is within Himself as He has done unto you today as with Moses.

God is Love, Holy Love, or Holy Spirit Love is called.

The Character of Love is spontaneity and manifests in extraordinary ways, for God is Love where we do not set the statements of Jesus in front of us as a standard, but where without thought, where in the heart God who is Love and everything we do with the life of God in us is only discerned when it is passed.

The way in which one shows God that one neither loves nor respects Him is by obtuseness of ones heart and mind toward what God says we should be and will be IF. IF, IF IF. Everything Jesus said about who we would become comes with an IF.

 

[Josheb]

One issue many unbelievers, atheists in particular, raise often is the allegation that Christians are somehow less moral than they are.

Perhaps, but that is always a red herring.


If a God exists and the God that exists is the God to which Christianity subscribes, then we don't get compared to one another. We get compared to Jesus, the sinless one, and all of us fail, whether theist or atheist.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

God is Love, Holy Love, or Holy Spirit Love is called.

The Character of Love is spontaneity and manifests in extraordinary ways, for God is Love where we do not set the statements of Jesus in front of us as a standard, but where without thought, where in the heart God who is Love and everything we do with the life of God in us is only discerned when it is passed.

The way in which one shows God that one neither loves nor respects Him is by obtuseness of ones heart and mind toward what God says we should be and will be IF. IF, IF IF. Everything Jesus said about who we would become comes with an IF.

But isn't love about caring for others?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

One issue many unbelievers, atheists in particular, raise often is the allegation that Christians are somehow less moral than they are.

Perhaps, but that is always a red herring.

But isn't morality very relevant to anybody's walk with God? Jesus taught that, "You will know them by their fruits." (Matthew 7:16). So I must disagree that comparing the morality of Christians to that of unbelievers is a red herring. If those in the Church are less moral than those who don't know Christ, then we have a theological quandary on our hands.

If a God exists and the God that exists is the God to which Christianity subscribes, then we don't get compared to one another. We get compared to Jesus, the sinless one, and all of us fail, whether theist or atheist.

But Jesus taught us to be perfect. (Matthew 5:48) Yes, we are temporarily imperfect, but when we are regenerated by the Holy Ghost, then we are empowered to live that perfect life Jesus taught us to live. If we do not life that perfect life, then we don't truly know Jesus. (Matthew 25:41).

It is very strange that many unbelievers seem to understand Christ's teaching on sin better than most Christians do. They realize that an imperfect life is a life untouched by God.

 

[Josheb]

But isn't morality very relevant to anybody's walk with God? Jesus taught that, "You will know them by their fruits." (Matthew 7:16). So I must disagree that comparing the morality of Christians to that of unbelievers is a red herring. If those in the Church are less moral than those who don't know Christ, then we have a theological quandary on our hands.

But Jesus taught us to be perfect. (Matthew 5:48) Yes, we are temporarily imperfect, but when we are regenerated by the Holy Ghost, then we are empowered to live that perfect life Jesus taught us to live. If we do not life that perfect life, then we don't truly know Jesus. (Matthew 25:41).

It is very strange that many unbelievers seem to understand Christ's teaching on sin better than most Christians do. They realize that an imperfect life is a life untouched by God.

When you read the New Testament do you find the people in the congregations to which Paul, Peter, and James are writing are particularly perfect people? The congregations in Corinth and Ephesus were particularly messy. One guy is having sex with his father's wife. Some of them are abusing the Lord's Supper as gluttons and drunkards.


The appeal to relative morality is a red herring.

If a God exists and the God that exists is the God to which Christianity subscribes, then we don't get compared to one another. We get compared to Jesus, the sinless one, and all of us fail, whether theist or atheist.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

When you read the New Testament do you find the people in the congregations to which Paul, Peter, and James are writing are particularly perfect people?

I suppose some of those congregants were not true followers of Jesus, but Paul never approved of it nor did he offer any excuses for them.

The congregations in Corinth and Ephesus were particularly messy. One guy is having sex with his father's wife. Some of them are abusing the Lord's Supper as gluttons and drunkards.

They obviously were not regenerated by the Holy Ghost.

If a God exists and the God that exists is the God to which Christianity subscribes, then we don't get compared to one another.

If God exists. then He has the power to save sinners from their sin. 2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Have Christians become new creatures? Have their old ways passed away? Have all things for them become new? Clearly God commands us to change in all ways--not just the ways we think we can live without.

We get compared to Jesus, the sinless one, and all of us fail, whether theist or atheist.

We fail, then we are regenerated by the Holy Ghost to live like Jesus lived.

I should end this post by emphasizing that many unbelievers know these Bible mandates and doctrines. When they see Christians sinning they think that no real God would let his followers get away with it.

 

[Our Lord's God]

One issue many unbelievers, atheists in particular, raise often is the allegation that Christians are somehow less moral than they are. We are often accused of deceit, hypocrisy, fanaticism, and persecution.

This is absolutely true of most "Christians."

It is not true of those who truly follow Jesus.

The implied "cure for these ills" is to forsake Christian beliefs and any theistic beliefs. Get rid of God, and enter the atheistic utopia of love, justice, rational thought, peace, and freedom!

Atheists are rejecting fake Christianity. On that score, they are correct to do so.

However, what they never entertain is that they are only rejecting fake Christianity.

Not. While there is no doubt that many who identify as Christians have committed heinous acts, history tells us that forsaking the faith is no cure for the world's ills. Atheism, for example, has failed miserably to deliver on its promises. I've known plenty of atheists who can be deceitful, hypocritical, and fanatical and who will abuse those who disagree with them.

And here I thought that only Christians were like that!

Most "Christians" are the broad road people Jesus talked about.

The followers of Jesus know them by their fruits. They can spot them coming a mile away.

These fake Christians seem to think all they need to do is self-identify as a true Christian and that makes it so. They are as deluded as a white man who self identifies as a black woman.

But they don't see the problem with it and will also refuse to do so.

 

[Gary Mac]

But isn't love about caring for others?

Not because we are suppose to but because we actually do care for others as ourselves. It isn't about looking noble toward man in his religious sects that go out on impulse to help another but actually go out and live the life and actually love one another unconditionally, it is about being like the God of it.

Jesus didnt care about you and I because he had to by law, he had a passion for those in ignorance of the joy of actually being of Love, God within, to walk as He walks in His same light for God is Love. Not many believe Him though they have made a man a god instead of being like Him themselves.

 

[Josheb]

I suppose some of those congregants were not true followers of Jesus, but Paul never approved of it nor did he offer any excuses for them.

Where do you find Paul stating they are not "true believers" ? Is this an appeal to purity? An ordinary reading of the epistles readily shows the authors treated these people as if they love God, were saints, sanctified by Christ, the elect (just to name a few of the labels applied to these people).

So I ask again, do you find the congregants in the first century particularly moral people?

 

[Simpletruther]

Perhaps, but that is always a red herring.


If a God exists and the God that exists is the God to which Christianity subscribes, then we don't get compared to one another. We get compared to Jesus, the sinless one, and all of us fail, whether theist or atheist.

In one sense yes.

But we do see comparisons. Someone who does not take care of family "worse than an unbeliever" for example.

So e are babes in Christ, as compared to the mature believer.

 

[Josheb]

In one sense yes.

But we do see comparisons. Someone who does not take care of family "worse than an unbeliever" for example.

So e are babes in Christ, as compared to the mature believer.

Hmmm....

Did I just read an appeal scripture just citing a Christian can be worse than an unbeliever in a thread asking if non-Christians are better than Christians.... in resistance to my pointing out we all fail?

 

[Simpletruther]

Hmmm....

Did I just read an appeal scripture just citing a Christian can be worse than an unbeliever in a thread asking if non-Christians are better than Christians.... in resistance to my pointing out we all fail?

I was assuming the OP understood that we all fail. That wasn't the OP question.

 

[Josheb]

I was assuming the OP understood that we all fail. That wasn't the OP question.

Great. Stay with me. If that failure is correct, then what is being asked in the op? Relativism? Degrees of failure where by one failing person can be said to be more moral in the failure than another?

And what of my statement the question is a red herring, one intended to avoid an unstated heart issue of the protestor? What has my atheist claim to be no better or worse morally than a Christian really about?

 

[Simpletruther]

Great. Stay with me. If that failure is correct, then what is being asked in the op? Relativism? Degrees of failure where by one failing person can be said to be more moral in the failure than another?

And what of my statement the question is a red herring, one intended to avoid an unstated heart issue of the protestor? What has my atheist claim to be no better or worse morally than a Christian really about?

I took his question to be which group is more moral as defined by God's law.

Obviously the believer is more moral. Because the plowing of the wicked is sin.

But i think he had in mind external visible morality, like "which group steals less" etc.

 

[Josheb]

I took his question to be which group is more moral as defined by God's law.

Obviously the believer is more moral. Because the plowing of the wicked is sin.

But i think he had in mind external visible morality, like "which group steals less" etc.

Perhaps. but I have found the matter a red herring, a device the unsaved use to avoid the critical heart matter to which we could speak if we listen to the Spirit who knows.

 

[Gary Mac]

In one sense yes.

But we do see comparisons. Someone who does not take care of family "worse than an unbeliever" for example.

So e are babes in Christ, as compared to the mature believer.

The real issue is what one believes. Some here believe the ways of God to be anointed of Him is gnostic lies.

Beliefs are not real, beliefs are only speculation that forms opinions. Jesus didnt simply believe in Goid, God manifested Himself in that man in Matt 3:16, before Matt 3:16 Jesus was only a believer in the laws of the Jewish temple he once taught in but after Matt 3:16, it all became reality instead of just a belief.

Beliefs are of Catholic, Mormons, Baptists, AOGs, Pentecostals, COCs, and that list expands to some 3500 some odd beliefs about a god. The only realist of God is Him manifest Himself in you just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, that is the only way Jesus could know God and His heaven and that is the only way anyone can know Him.

When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3.

 

[CrowCross]

Hmmm....

Did I just read an appeal scripture just citing a Christian can be worse than an unbeliever in a thread asking if non-Christians are better than Christians.... in resistance to my pointing out we all fail?

Some can be and some can't be.....what's your point?