Are The Father...Son...and Holy Spirit...INDIVIDUALLY REAL?

Caroljeen

Well-known member
Romans 8: 9-11 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you.

If you can tell me about the Spirit that Paul speaks of in these 3 verses from Romans 8, I will give an answer to this thread. Who is this Spirit? Is Paul talking about more than 1 Spirit?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
None of the 3 speak and say...I am the other.

John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


All three use the term "I" in scripture which means... someone aware of possessing a personal individuality : SELF

So which of the three is saying “I” here?

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
 

CrowCross

Super Member
John 14:9... Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?




So which of the three is saying “I” here?

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
What is meant by "alone"??? It's obvious your definition misses it...as....God said, let US make man in OUR image.
In John we read....in the beginning was the Word...we find out the Word was with God AND God.

Even the NT tells us Jesus was the creator...which clearly indicated He is God the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Even the NT tells us Jesus was the creator...which clearly indicated He is God the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens.

So you are saying the second Person of the Trinity is the one saying “I” here...

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Correct?
 

CrowCross

Super Member
So you are saying the second Person of the Trinity is the one saying “I” here...

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Correct?
Are you saying he isn't?
 

101G

Well-known member
None of the 3 speak and say...I am the other.
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this.
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

is not the Lord Jesus speaking of himself in Spirit? for is he not the MEDIATOR/ADVOCATE in Flesh, who is the Comforter? supportive scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" the term advocate means, G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is not the Lord Jesus the advocate? ... which is the COMFORTER?. lets examine the term in John 14:6,
Comforter,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

the exact same word.

Now the Revelation. is not the COMFORTER the INTERCESSOR/THE HOLY SPIRIT? lets see, Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
and the Holy Spirit is the INTERCESSOR.

so the Lord Jesus just told us that he's Holy Spirit, who is God Almighty. ... and he told us that he is the Father.
PICJAG, 101G.
 
Romans 8: 9-11 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you.

If you can tell me about the Spirit that Paul speaks of in these 3 verses from Romans 8, I will give an answer to this thread. Who is this Spirit? Is Paul talking about more than 1 Spirit?
All three dwell in the believer....all the evidence must be used to form a conclusion
John 14:23... Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
 
Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this.
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

is not the Lord Jesus speaking of himself in Spirit? for is he not the MEDIATOR/ADVOCATE in Flesh, who is the Comforter? supportive scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" the term advocate means, G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is not the Lord Jesus the advocate? ... which is the COMFORTER?. lets examine the term in John 14:6,
Comforter,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

the exact same word.

Now the Revelation. is not the COMFORTER the INTERCESSOR/THE HOLY SPIRIT? lets see, Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
and the Holy Spirit is the INTERCESSOR.

so the Lord Jesus just told us that he's Holy Spirit, who is God Almighty. ... and he told us that he is the Father.
PICJAG, 101G.
We have 2 Advocates....
You forgot Romans 8:34... Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You cannot be the lawyer and the judge...
 
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101G

Well-known member
We have 2 Advocates....
You forgot Romans 8:34... Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You cannot be the lawyer and the judge...
God is, ........ as well as Mediator too. Galatians 3:20 " Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."

now for your Romans 8:34 " Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."

so, who is our "intercessor?" answer, the Lord Jesus the Spirit, yes the Holy Spirit, our "advocate", see 1 John 2:1. and get this he, the Lord Jesus as advocate is the Holy Spirit, whom also maketh intercession for us in praying. LISTEN, and LEARN, Romans 8:26 " Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
MY GOD, DO WE HAVE TO DRAW PICTURES NEXT?

Understand, the term "Advocate", and "Comforter/Holy Spirit", it's the same word, who is the Lord Jesus
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

can it get any plainer than that?


PICJAG, 101G,
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
All three dwell in the believer....all the evidence must be used to form a conclusion
John 14:23... Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
There is only one Spirit. Eph 4:4

I believe Romans 8:9-11 is speaking of one Spirit but using different titles to describe it. There is only one Spirit residing in us not three Spirits.
 

Caroljeen

Well-known member
None of the 3 speak and say...I am the other.

All three use the term "I" in scripture which means... someone aware of possessing a personal individuality : SELF

This is enough to get started....
There are definitely distinctions.
The Son is God in human form.
The Father is referring to God in his relation to his Son.
The Spirit (of God, Holy, etc) is referring to God who is active in the world and upon and in people. God is a spirit. The divine Spirit is simply God by nature. Just as an angel is an angelic spirit by nature.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
None of the 3 speak and say...I am the other.
Correct. In fact, God points out that "there is no other".
All three use the term "I" in scripture which means... someone aware of possessing a personal individuality : SELF
Personification doesn't mean one is literally in possession of a self-identity.
This is enough to get started....
The word "individual" comes from the word " indivisible". There is no such thing as a separate individual. A separate individual is an oxymoron.

The father may be distinguished from the son, but they cannot be separate. They are one in spirit, but there is no such thing as a separate spirit. This is where the doctrine of the trinity goes off the rails into la la land.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Romans 8: 9-11 But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, then the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you.

If you can tell me about the Spirit that Paul speaks of in these 3 verses from Romans 8, I will give an answer to this thread. Who is this Spirit? Is Paul talking about more than 1 Spirit?
He isn't referring to a spirit, but to the medium itself. God is not a spirit, but spirit (i.e. spiritual).
 

101G

Well-known member
John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

there is only "ONE" Spirit, the Holy Spirit, who holds BOTH the titles in the ECHAD of Father/Ordinal First, and Son/Ordinal Last. it's just that simple.. God the Spirit in his own "CREATION" is the ECHAD of his "OWN" SELF in Flesh that came as his own IMAGE, "Man"..

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
So you are saying the second Person of the Trinity is the one saying “I” here...

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Correct?
Are you saying he isn't?

I believe there is ONLY ONE Person who transcends creation. So this question about a "SECOND" Divine Person does not apply to me.

But since YOU DO believe there are MULTIPLE Divine Persons, can YOU tell us...

Is the second Person of the Trinity is the one saying “alone” here...

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
 

CrowCross

Super Member
I believe there is ONLY ONE Person who transcends creation. So this question about a "SECOND" Divine Person does not apply to me.

But since YOU DO believe there are MULTIPLE Divine Persons, can YOU tell us...

Is the second Person of the Trinity is the one saying “alone” here...

Isaiah 44:24... Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
It was God alone. You just don't like the fact God, who is alone God can be seen in 3 persons.

Its possible for me alone to make something....despite ME being a physical and spiritual entity.
 
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