Are there Buddhists here?

[Hark]

God explicitly says that He lies and deceives on occasions.

Does God lie? Two headings there at that site with scripture for each First header is "No, God cannot and does not lie." and the second header is "Yes, God lies by proxy; He sends prophets or lying spirits to deceive." with scriptures for that.

If, as Christians say, Jesus is God, then Jesus is not being consistent.

Yet He was crucified for that reason by saying He is God. He was almost stoned to death a couple of times before that moment for saying He is God.

If "private interpretation" is not allowed, then do we follow the Pope on Rome or the Patriarch in Istanbul? Or do we follow Ken Ham perhaps? There are a lot of public interpretations available. The Archbishop of Canterbury maybe? Jerry Falwell Jr?

God allows different interpretations and thus cannot avoid falsehood. Either Lutheran, Calvinist or both must be wrong. Either pre-trib, post-trib or both must be wrong. Has God eliminated all Christian denominations except one? No, He allows false interpretations to carry on regardless.

What I am saying is that God punishes false teachings i.e. heresy, so that those who shall dwell with Him, will do so in sincerity and in truth.

Kundalini is Hindu, not Buddhist. If your friend has problems then he needs to find a better teacher.

Buddhism came from Hinduism and so the rudiments and methodology regarding meditation and yoga are the same; just different results as claimed by those doing those things as we find in other new age theologies where it has entered into Christianity in thinking in error that one can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign. God will permit this falling away from the faith when they believe that lie for why strong delusions befall those going astray.

As it is, I apologize to you & the Lord Jesus Christ for saying "It seems all I can say is this, " when I am relying on the Lord Jesus Christ in me to speak to you.

I hope in Jesus Christ in you to remind you to call on Him to be saved when the evil arises whether it be demons or being left behind when that fiery calamity falls on a third of the earth; the western hemisphere for why the rest of the world is entering the great tribulation..

I know pride can get in the way of applying your skepticism to Buddhism just as your lack of forgiveness towards Christians turning you away from Christ by how they judge. This is why you need Jesus Christ to help you to forgive them for they know not what they do. Just as you need to go before that throne of grace and ask Him the questions for why you turn away from Him and expect an answer.. even before you ask too.

 

[rossum]

What I am saying is that God punishes false teachings i.e. heresy, so that those who shall dwell with Him, will do so in sincerity and in truth.

At least one of pre-tribulation and post-tribulation theology must be wrong. Get back to us when God has punished one, or both.

Currently God seems notably uninterested in heresy. He ignores it, though His followers seem a lot more interested in it than He is.

 

[Hark]

At least one of pre-tribulation and post-tribulation theology must be wrong. Get back to us when God has punished one, or both.

Currently God seems notably uninterested in heresy. He ignores it, though His followers seem a lot more interested in it than He is.

Since you are not seeking Him nor the truth in His words, you will find out the hard way then. Just remember when left behind as denying Him, He still abides in you and He will get you Home as His lost sheep. When that fiery calamity falls on one third of the earth, and even when that was after hearing the gospel by that first angel, you can call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ any time.

I will not be coming back to you. By His grace & by His help, I am leaving this discussion and you in His hands. May God bless you & keep you. may His face shine upon you & give you Hs peace.

 

[rossum]

Since you are not seeking Him nor the truth in His words, you will find out the hard way then.

Yet another Argumentum ad Baculum from one of the Christians here.

 

[Hark]

Yet another Argumentum ad Baculum from one of the Christians here.

Since you are picking out the negative and ignoring the positive, the Father ( yes He is still your Father ) will chasten you & bring you Home.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

That includes unrepentant saints & former believers that gets left behind at the rapture because He will not lose any one but get that lost sheep.

 

[Algernon]

You are not the first to ask me this...

Why I am Buddhist

The short answer is that Buddhism works.

The long answer is the same but takes more words. I was brought up as a Christian. When I hit my teens I dropped religion and switched to atheism. That was mainly because I objected to the rather too common, "anyone who does not agree exactly with us is damned for eternity, especially those heretics in that church down the road," attitude I found. After a few years I moved away from atheism, I felt that while it did avoid many of the problems with Christianity it was not itself a solution. I looked at different religions to find something that would work for me. None of the Abrahamic religions attracted me -- as a hangover from my atheism I still had a problem with the concepts of God and soul. Initially I was interested in Hinduism. The background of Indian religion provides a very different world view: less exclusive -- everyone achieves liberation eventually, the concept of karma and a much more relaxed attitude to both other religions and to alternative variants of the same religion. Of the Hindu texts the Bhagavad Gita and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras were the ones that attracted me most. In particular there is hardly any mention of gods in the Yoga Sutras. That seemed to be an interesting direction to explore.

Reading round Hinduism I inevitably came across Jainism and Buddhism. Jainism has souls but no gods, or at least no important gods. Buddhism has no souls and its attitude to gods is very casual -- like any other living being they need to become enlightened. A mere god is far inferior to a Bodhisattva, let alone to a fully enlightened Buddha. Buddhism seemed to have the elements I was looking for: non-exclusivity, no soul, morality and while it did have gods, they were unimportant and could easily be ignored. So I tried Buddhism. I studied more on it, went to groups and to meditation classes and found that everything fitted together well and it suited the way I wanted to go.

A frequently quoted Buddhist text is the Kalama sutta which says that if we are to accept something then we have to try it first to check that it is correct:

​

[The Buddha said:] "Kalamas, when you yourselves know: 'These things are good; these things are not blameable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,' enter on and abide in them."​

​

This advice applies to the Buddha's own words just as much as to anything else. I followed the Buddha's advice. I tried Buddhism, found that it worked and I have followed it ever since.

There is even some scientific evidence that Buddhism works: see Buddhists 'really are happier'.

Buddhism is a very practical religion. It is a sustained attempt to alleviate the suffering of a less than perfect world. Generally it succeeds. Buddhism works.

As a matter of curiosity, what is your conception of karma?

 

[rossum]

As a matter of curiosity, what is your conception of karma?

If I throw a stone straight up in the air, then whose fault is it when that stone lands on my head? My fault. I know how gravity works so I need to tailor my actions to take account of gravity.

Similarly karma. I need to tailor my actions to take account of karma. Actions have consequences, so I need to think before acting. Karma does not do forgiveness any more than gravity does.

Mind precedes all conditions,​

mind is their chief, they are mind-made.​

If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,​

as the wheel follows the draught ox.​

​

Mind precedes all conditions,​

mind is their chief, they are mind-made.​

If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,​

as a shadow that never leaves.​

​

-- Dhammapada 1:1-2​

 

[Algernon]

If I throw a stone straight up in the air, then whose fault is it when that stone lands on my head? My fault. I know how gravity works so I need to tailor my actions to take account of gravity.

Similarly karma. I need to tailor my actions to take account of karma. Actions have consequences, so I need to think before acting. Karma does not do forgiveness any more than gravity does.

Mind precedes all conditions,​

mind is their chief, they are mind-made.​

If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,​

as the wheel follows the draught ox.​

​

Mind precedes all conditions,​

mind is their chief, they are mind-made.​

If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,​

as a shadow that never leaves.​

​

-- Dhammapada 1:1-2​

Can you be more explicit as to how you think it works? What is the underlying mechanism?

BTW, not sure why you spoke of "forgiveness".

 

[rossum]

Can you be more explicit as to how you think it works? What is the underlying mechanism?

I have no idea. It works, that's all I can tell.

BTW, not sure why you spoke of "forgiveness".

It is something I get a lot from the Christians here when discussing karma.

 

[Algernon]

I have no idea. It works, that's all I can tell.


It is something I get a lot from the Christians here when discussing karma.

Well, I'm not a Christian, so it seemed a little odd.

Let's try it this way. Hopefully I'll be able to get a better idea of what you have in mind by piecing together your responses.

Can you give examples of how you've seen it "work?

"If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox."
Can you give examples of how suffering might "follow" someone? To be clear, I'm not looking for additional metaphors.

"If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves."
Can you give examples of how happiness might "follow" someone?

 

[rossum]

Can you give examples of how you've seen it "work?

"If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox."
Can you give examples of how suffering might "follow" someone? To be clear, I'm not looking for additional metaphors.

Bernie Madoff did wrong and was put in prison because of his actions.

"If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves."
Can you give examples of how happiness might "follow" someone?

You learn to meditate and practice it frequently. Buddhists really are happier.

Karma is not magic or special, it is just what happens.

 

[Algernon]

Bernie Madoff did wrong and was put in prison because of his actions.

Why do ascribe this to "karma" rather than the US legal system?

Karma is not magic or special, it is just what happens.

Magic? Special? Just happens? Sounds like the response of someone with absolutely no conceptual understanding of what they believe and why - beyond it works for them and it makes them feel good. For all intents and purposes, how is this different from a Christian who believes that Christianity works for them and it makes them feel good, so they mindlessly believe everything they are told the Bible says?

 

[rossum]

Why do ascribe this to "karma" rather than the US legal system?

Karma means that actions have consequences. Imprisonment is one of the possible consequences of some actions. Humans are a social species, and all human societies have equivalent systems.

Magic? Special? Just happens? Sounds like the response of someone with absolutely no conceptual understanding of what they believe and why - beyond it works for them and it makes them feel good. For all intents and purposes, how is this different from a Christian who believes that Christianity works for them and it makes them feel good, so they mindlessly believe everything they are told the Bible says?

I am sure there are some Buddhist like that, as well as Christians. For myself I try things and see what works for me. Buddhism recognises that what works for one person may not work for another, hence the number of different meditation techniques available.

 

[Algernon]

Karma means that actions have consequences. Imprisonment is one of the possible consequences of some actions. Humans are a social species, and all human societies have equivalent systems.


I am sure there are some Buddhist like that, as well as Christians. For myself I try things and see what works for me. Buddhism recognises that what works for one person may not work for another, hence the number of different meditation techniques available.

This is interesting. You don't seem to have thought any of this through. For example, your understanding of karma seems to be simplistic and limited and doesn't seem to fit the most common conceptions of karma that I've come across.

Actions have consequences whether or not one is Buddhist.

One can have an efficacious meditation practice whether or not one is Buddhist.

Why be Buddhist?

 

[rossum]

Why be Buddhist?

It works for me. I also like the approach to gods (they can safely be ignored) and souls (they don't exist).

A lot of religions see things as basically static, with a veneer of apparent change. Buddhism reverses that; things are always changing with a veneer of apparent stasis. I prefer the Buddhist approach.

 

[Algernon]

It works for me. I also like the approach to gods (they can safely be ignored) and souls (they don't exist).

A lot of religions see things as basically static, with a veneer of apparent change. Buddhism reverses that; things are always changing with a veneer of apparent stasis. I prefer the Buddhist approach.

I guess I needed to be more explicit. Within the context of the rest of what I wrote in my previous post, why be a Buddhist? One might as well as not adhere to any religion at all.

BTW, like you I investigated a number of spiritual paths: in particular Vedanta, Buddhism, Christianity and Baha'i. I suspect that it would probably help you to gain a better understanding of karma. You don't seem to really understand what it's about - other than in a very simplistic way. Also, ultimately there are no gods in Vedanta either. They are maya (illusion).

 

[rossum]

I guess I needed to be more explicit. Within the context of the rest of what I wrote in my previous post, why be a Buddhist? One might as well as not adhere to any religion at all.

In some senses Buddhism is not a religion -- gods can be completely ignored. It provides a number of useful and time-tested techniques which I find useful.

BTW, like you I investigated a number of spiritual paths: in particular Vedanta, Buddhism, Christianity and Baha'i. I suspect that it would probably help you to gain a better understanding of karma. You don't seem to really understand what it's about - other than in a very simplistic way. Also, ultimately there are no gods in Vedanta either. They are maya (illusion).

I prefer the Buddhist approach to maya; Vedanta still has the atman, while Buddhism is anatman -- there it no atman, it is just another deceptive illusion. It is another of those appearances of permanence that Buddhism tries to overcome.

 

[Algernon]

In some senses Buddhism is not a religion -- gods can be completely ignored. It provides a number of useful and time-tested techniques which I find useful.

Unfortunately you seem either unwilling or unable to answer the question. Instead you continue to talk around it.

I prefer the Buddhist approach to maya; Vedanta still has the atman, while Buddhism is anatman -- there it no atman, it is just another deceptive illusion. It is another of those appearances of permanence that Buddhism tries to overcome.

As you seem to have a very simplistic and limited understanding of karma, so goes it for atman (and maya for that matter).

Hopefully at some time you'll come to the realization that ultimately it's about truth rather than "feeling good". Until then you are doomed to remain in maya.

 

[rossum]

Unfortunately you seem either unwilling or unable to answer the question. Instead you continue to talk around it.

I know that dark matter exists because we can see its gravitational effects. I do not yet know what dark matter is. I know that karma exists because I can see its effects. I do not yet know exactly how karma works. For the moment I follow the "We don't know yet" option.

As you seem to have a very simplistic and limited understanding of karma, so goes it for atman (and maya for that matter).

Atman is yet another illusion. We think we have a soul, but we don't, it is just another reification to go along with many others.

 

[Algernon]

I know that dark matter exists because we can see its gravitational effects. I do not yet know what dark matter is. I know that karma exists because I can see its effects. I do not yet know exactly how karma works. For the moment I follow the "We don't know yet" option.


Atman is yet another illusion. We think we have a soul, but we don't, it is just another reification to go along with many others.

Based on your responses, it's clear that you not only "do not yet know exactly how karma works", you have no idea. Which of course also means that you don't know what it IS. Ditto for atman. Why don't you simply admit it? Instead you keep trying to pretend that you do, which makes it all the more obvious.