Are we justified by faith when we have faith?

Newbirth

Well-known member
It supports that they were reconciled by faith and have peace with God, reconciliation with Him through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, ... if indeed you are grounded in the faith. Col 1:12-23


The record clearly states that those who believed in Him were to receive the Spirit.

He is the divine Son of God, the firstborn over all creation, in whom we have redemption.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Col 1:12-23
that does not mean you don't have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling...
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It supports that we are reconciled by faith and have peace with God, reconciliation with Him through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, ... if indeed you are grounded in the faith. Col 1:12-23
The record clearly states that those who believed in Him were to receive the Spirit.
He is the divine Son of God, the firstborn over all creation, in whom we have redemption.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Col 1:12-23
And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him. Acts 5:29-32
that does not mean you don't have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling...
It certainly doesn't mean you can neglect so great a salvation first spoken by the Lord, and confirmed by those who heard Him.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It supports that we are reconciled by faith and have peace with God, reconciliation with Him through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, ... if indeed you are grounded in the faith. Col 1:12-23
The record clearly states that those who believed in Him were to receive the Spirit.
He is the divine Son of God, the firstborn over all creation, in whom we have redemption.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. Col 1:12-23
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! 1 Cor 1:57
How can work out your salvation with fear and trembling mean neglecting salvation?
Since you balk at salvation through faith in Christ at every turn, why don't you tell us how you're irreverently seeking to escape death, the wages of sin?

Our God is the God of salvation; And from Christ the Lord comes escape from death. Psalm 68:20-21
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! 1 Cor 1:57
Eph 10
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



Since you balk at salvation through faith in Christ at every turn, why don't you tell us how you're irreverently seeking to escape death, the wages of sin?
Where did I balk against salvation through faith in Christ? I said as Paul also said... we have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. You are saying that we don't have to.
Our God is the God of salvation; And from Christ the Lord comes escape from death. Psalm 68:20-21
yes, but that does not mean you don't have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Eph 10
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Don't forget the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit,...
Where did I balk against salvation through faith in Christ?
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James 4:17
I said as Paul also said... we have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. You are saying that we don't have to.
"The sacrifice that honors me is a thankful heart; and to everyone who does what is right, I will reveal the salvation of God." Psalm 50:23
yes, but that does not mean you don't have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation. Psalm 118:21
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Don't forget the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit,...
You just proved your ignorance....Those would be included in the whole armour.
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them. James 4:17
Yep, yet you continue to teach that men do not have to work out their own salvation.
"The sacrifice that honors me is a thankful heart; and to everyone who does what is right, I will reveal the salvation of God." Psalm 50:23
Yep that would be part of working out your own salvation...
I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation. Psalm 118:21
Yep, giving thanks always is part of working out your own salvation...
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
You just proved your ignorance....Those would be included in the whole armour.
The knowledge of salvation is found in Christ,
Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, And He bestowed gifts on men.”

So that you reach unity in the faith and the knowledge of salvation in the Son of God, reaching to the measure of the fullness of Christ; So that we are no tossed back and forth by every wind of shifting doctrine; Eph 4
Yep, yet you continue to teach that men do not have to work out their own salvation.
I continue to teach that in Christ we are complete.
God revealed His eternal plan making known the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you
Him we proclaim Him, so that we may present everyone complete in Christ. Col 1:27-28
JonHawk said:
"The sacrifice that honors me is a thankful heart; and to everyone who does what is right, I will reveal the salvation of God." Psalm 50:23
Yep that would be part of working out your own salvation...
Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of God’s people in the kingdom of the Son.
JonHawk said:
I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation. Psalm 118:21
Yep, giving thanks always is part of working out your own salvation...
They will say, “We trusted in God, and he saved us. Let us rejoice in Christ's salvation.” Isa 25:9

Rejoice in the Lord, you righteous ones; Praise is becoming and appropriate for the thankful heart; Psalm 33:1

Therefore, since we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe;
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
The knowledge of salvation is found in Christ,
Therefore it says, “When He ascended on high, And He bestowed gifts on men.”

So that you reach unity in the faith and the knowledge of salvation in the Son of God, reaching to the measure of the fullness of Christ; So that we are no tossed back and forth by every wind of shifting doctrine; Eph 4

I continue to teach that in Christ we are complete.
God revealed His eternal plan making known the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you
Him we proclaim Him, so that we may present everyone complete in Christ. Col 1:27-28


Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of God’s people in the kingdom of the Son.


They will say, “We trusted in God, and he saved us. Let us rejoice in Christ's salvation.” Isa 25:9

Rejoice in the Lord, you righteous ones; Praise is becoming and appropriate for the thankful heart; Psalm 33:1

Therefore, since we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe;
None of the text you posted says we must not work out our own salvation with fear and trembling..
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
God revealed His eternal plan making known the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you;
Him we proclaim Him, so that we may present everyone complete in Christ. Col 1:27-28

Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of God’s people in the kingdom of the Son.

Therefore, since we receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe;
He was declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith;
None of the text you posted says we must not work out our own salvation with fear and trembling..
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—John 17:22

Watch carefully that no one falls short of God’s saving grace;
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
He was declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith;

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—John 17:22
It is good to post the scripture.
Watch carefully that no one falls short of God’s saving grace;
God's saving grace is through faith and faith without works is dead.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
The Lord reigns; Let the earth rejoice;
It is good to post the scripture.
Light is sown for the righteous; Rejoice in the Lord you righteous. Ps 97
God's saving grace is through faith and faith without works is dead.
It is good to give thanks to the Lord,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning,

For You, Lord, have made me glad through Your work;

A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this.
When all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
But You, Lord, are on high forevermore. Ps 92
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
The Lord reigns; Let the earth rejoice; Light is sown for the righteous; Rejoice in the Lord you righteous. Ps 97
It is good to give thanks to the Lord, And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning,

For You, Lord, have made me glad through Your work;

A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this.
When all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
But You, Lord, are on high forevermore. Ps 92
Why do nations rage when the King is on His throne
Now and forever You will reign!
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The Lord reigns; Let the earth rejoice;

Light is sown for the righteous; Rejoice in the Lord you righteous. Ps 97

It is good to give thanks to the Lord,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning,

For You, Lord, have made me glad through Your work;

A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this.
When all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
But You, Lord, are on high forevermore. Ps 92
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

You should be ashamed for wrongly dividing the word of God.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
The Lord reigns; Let the earth rejoice;
Light is sown for the righteous; Rejoice in the Lord you righteous. Ps 97

It is good to give thanks to the Lord, And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High;
To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning,

For You, Lord, have made me glad through Your work;

A senseless man does not know, Nor does a fool understand this.
When all the workers of iniquity flourish, It is that they may be destroyed forever.
But You, Lord, are on high forevermore. Ps 92

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

You should be ashamed for wrongly dividing the word of God.
Everlasting shame is reserved for the wicked, the godless.

Remember when the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God, children of Israel. Deut 32:8

The nobles of the nations assemble as the people of the God of Abraham, for the kings of the earth belong to God; He is greatly exalted. Psalm 47:9

And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.
When God raised up his Servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” Acts 3:25-26

To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things,
Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing. Isaiah 40

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Everlasting shame is reserved for the wicked, the godless.

Remember when the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God, children of Israel. Deut 32:8

The nobles of the nations assemble as the people of the God of Abraham, for the kings of the earth belong to God; He is greatly exalted. Psalm 47:9

And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.
When God raised up his Servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” Acts 3:25-26

To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things,
Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing. Isaiah 40

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
 

TheTruth

Active member
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Romans 4:5).

Notice that the verse says when a person believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. If baptism is necessary for salvation then this verse cannot be true.

We are either justified by faith when we have faith, or we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

If we are justified at baptism, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

If we are justified by faith when we believe and trust in God, then by whose faith are we justified?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed. When God raised up his Servant Jesus, He sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” Acts 3:25-26

To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes on high, And see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might And the strength of His power; Not one is missing. Isaiah 40

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, and forever.

The Lord is exalted for He dwells in Zion;
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
The Lord confides in those who fear him; He makes his covenant known to them. Psalm 25:14

He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the Lord is the key to this treasure. Isaiah 33:5-6

Coming to Him the Living Stone...presenting offerings acceptable to God ·through Jesus Christ, [the mediator of a New Covenant, Heb 12:22-24]
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone; Anyone who ·trusts [believes; has faith] in Him will never be ·shaken. 2 Peter 2

Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. Psalm 125:1
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
The Lord is exalted for He dwells in Zion;

The Lord confides in those who fear him; He makes his covenant known to them. Psalm 25:14

He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the Lord is the key to this treasure. Isaiah 33:5-6

Coming to Him the Living Stone...presenting offerings acceptable to God ·through Jesus Christ, [the mediator of a New Covenant, Heb 12:22-24]
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone; Anyone who ·trusts [believes; has faith] in Him will never be ·shaken. 2 Peter 2

Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever. Psalm 125:1

Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Through the gospel the Gentiles are partakers together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

1 Cor 1:24-25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than all you religious drunks combined, who don't know the way of peace.

As though the drunkard could be included with the sober.

So that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober; Deut 29:18-20

This one is on you @Newbirth

Work it out it so that you are sober-minded at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the Lord is the key to this treasure. Isaiah 33:5-6

Coming to Him the Living Stone...presenting offerings acceptable to God ·through Jesus Christ, [the mediator of a New Covenant, Heb 12:22-24]
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone; Anyone who ·trusts [believes; has faith] in Him will never be ·shaken. 2 Peter 2, Psalm 125:1
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
On that day, people will have regard for their creator, and their eyes will behold Christ the holy one of Israel. Isa 17:7

“Then they will hallow My name, And fear the God of Israel.
These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine." Isa 29:23-24

But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts; 1 Peter 3:14-16
 
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