Are we justified by faith when we have faith?

Newbirth

Well-known member
Through the gospel the Gentiles are partakers together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

1 Cor 1:24-25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than all you religious drunks combined, who don't know the way of peace.

As though the drunkard could be included with the sober.

So that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober; Deut 29:18-20

This one is on you @Newbirth

Work it out it so that you are sober-minded at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


On that day, people will have regard for their creator, and their eyes will behold Christ the holy one of Israel. Isa 17:7

“Then they will hallow My name, And fear the God of Israel.
These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine." Isa 29:23-24

But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts; 1 Peter 3:14-16
you still have to work out your own salvation bro...
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said: Through the gospel the Gentiles are partakers together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
1 Cor 1:24-25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than all you religious drunks combined, who don't know the way of peace.

As though the drunkard could be included with the sober.
So that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; 19 and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober; Deut 29:18-20

This one is on you @Newbirth
Work it out it so that you are sober-minded at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

On that day, people will have regard for their creator, and their eyes will behold Christ the holy one of Israel. Isa 17:7

“Then they will hallow My name, And fear the God of Israel.
These also who erred in spirit will come to understanding,
And those who complained will learn doctrine." Isa 29:23-24

But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts; 1 Peter 3:14-16
you still have to work out your own salvation bro...
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. Heb 4
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Romans 4:5).


Notice that the verse says when a person believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. If baptism is necessary for salvation then this verse cannot be true.

We are either justified by faith when we have faith, or we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

If we are justified at baptism, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

Ever reach in a pocket of some new clothes you bought and pull out a printed ticket saying that the garment passed QC?

When God sees *faith* in a person? He stamped that person "Justified."

When faith is found in that person? That faith is what passes God''s quality control inspection. We are now His.

Its not that complicated.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Romans 4:5).


Notice that the verse says when a person believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. If baptism is necessary for salvation then this verse cannot be true.

We are either justified by faith when we have faith, or we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

If we are justified at baptism, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

Just to continue on in the old diatribe, who's faith are we talking about?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Ever reach in a pocket of some new clothes you bought and pull out a printed ticket saying that the garment passed QC?

When God sees *faith* in a person? He stamped that person "Justified."

When faith is found in that person? That faith is what passes God''s quality control inspection. We are now His.

Its not that complicated.

and when man cannot be any longer.

How is that stamped?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Ever reach in a pocket of some new clothes you bought and pull out a printed ticket saying that the garment passed QC?
That is a poor analogy.
When God sees *faith* in a person? He stamped that person "Justified."
That is not true, one must act on that faith...Have you not read... faith without works is dead?
When faith is found in that person?
What are you talking about? God has given to every man the measure of faith...
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually reads the Bible anymore.
That faith is what passes God''s quality control inspection. We are now His.
No, that is not true... obedience to that faith is what passes God's quality control.
Its not that complicated.
You just made it more complicated than it is.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
@GeneZ

What are you talking about? God has given to every man the measure of faith... Romans 12:3
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
When He ascended on high,... Eph 4:7-8

God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved). Eph 2:5

Which is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand; Eph 1
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That is a poor analogy.

That is not true, one must act on that faith...Have you not read... faith without works is dead?


When you first got saved? You acted upon LIVING faith by BELIEVING.

Salvation is not being saved by 'works' (plurality). The plurality of works was a system devised by religion. The Pharisees (and legalists today) are doing prescribed deeds as to gain the approval of God.

The Pharisees had a great number of man-made works for the people to follow to become saved. Its why many Jews in Jesus day were so works oriented.

In contrast to religion and its system for doing prescribed many works to be saved? Salvation is being saved by one singular work.

Here is that one work that saves ...

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs
I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils,
but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the
Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:26-29



Believing in Jesus is an accepted LIVING work to God! One work! Not works.. Its not a religious system of doing works as to try to win salvation from God.
Salvation begins with a single work. A LIVING work that is between you and God alone.

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

When you believed in Jesus and entered into regeneration? That was a LIVING work! Not a dead work.

For some? Believing onto salvation may be the last non dead work they do. For if they have an ingrained religious streak. They may resort to seeking dead works to do after they are saved by the LIVING work. That was the problem with the Jewish believers as seen in Hebrews 6:4-6. For theses Jewish believers returned to the Temple to offer animal sacrifices for their sins. They rejected the atonement of Jesus as valid for their sins. Dead works. Those works are dead works.

The 'alive' work of believing is what saves the believer and brings him into regeneration.

Good works? Finding oneself being guided by the Spirit, and being enabled by God's power of grace, into discovering works. Works that He planned or you? Is adding to your post salvation experience 'good' works. Good works that God wants and approves of. Works that were custom made by God for the believer. Works that the Spirit filled believer should be finding himself doing. Performing them them as they come his way from God.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:10​

We do not need to go looking for works to do.

If we walk in grace and truth? And, keep growing in knowledge? The works God desires for us to do will find us as God brings them our way. We should find ourselves doing what we did not go looking for.

At times we may not even know we are doing good works. For a transformed mind that comes from God's grace will make the works seem to simply be the right thing to do.

Some churches make a list of works for its members to do. They do not leave room for God to guide the believer into works they will find themselves doing...

When we are given a "list" of works to do? It then becomes like following a script = dead works.

grace and peace .....
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
When He ascended on high,... Eph 4:7-8

God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved). Eph 2:5

Which is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand; Eph 1
@Newbirth
When you first got saved? You acted upon LIVING faith by BELIEVING.
You were created in Christ Jesus, ...
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:26-29
Believing in Jesus is an accepted LIVING work to God! One work! Not works.. Its not a religious system of doing works as to try to win salvation from God. Salvation begins with a single work. A LIVING work that is between you and God alone.
When you believed in Jesus and entered into regeneration? That was a LIVING work! Not a dead work.
Before that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. Eph 2:10-12
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
When He ascended on high,... Eph 4:7-8

God made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved). Eph 2:5

Which is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand; Eph 1
GeneZ said:
@Newbirth
When you first got saved? You acted upon LIVING faith by BELIEVING.
You were created in Christ Jesus, ...
GeneZ said:
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
John 6:26-29
Believing in Jesus is an accepted LIVING work to God! One work! Not works.. Its not a religious system of doing works as to try to win salvation from God. Salvation begins with a single work. A LIVING work that is between you and God alone.
When you believed in Jesus and entered into regeneration? That was a LIVING work! Not a dead work.
Before that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. Eph 2:10-12
Could you please explain? How were we created in Christ Jesus?
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.1 John 5:4
He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
When you first got saved? You acted upon LIVING faith by BELIEVING.
That is foolishness. How many times does a person get saved for one to use a phrase like... when you first got saved? Faith is determined by action, not by mental acceptance. the scripture says faith comes by hearing the word of God... Therefore all who have heard the word of God have faith. It is those who act on what they hear. They are the ones who are saved.
Salvation is not being saved by 'works' (plurality).
Salvation is not a one time action...
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
The plurality of works was a system devised by religion.
By your religion I suppose.
The Pharisees (and legalists today) are doing prescribed deeds as to gain the approval of God.
And idiots reject the prescribed deeds approved by God.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
The Pharisees had a great number of man-made works for the people to follow to become saved. Its why many Jews in Jesus day were so works oriented.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
In contrast to religion and its system for doing prescribed many works to be saved? Salvation is being saved by one singular work.

Here is that one work that saves ...

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs
I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils,
but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the
Father has placed his seal of approval.”
Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6:26-29



Believing in Jesus is an accepted LIVING work to God! One work! Not works.. Its not a religious system of doing works as to try to win salvation from God.
Salvation begins with a single work. A LIVING work that is between you and God alone.
You got that all wrong... Believing in Jesus is obeying God's commands and doing everything that Jesus commands...
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

When you believed in Jesus and entered into regeneration? That was a LIVING work! Not a dead work.
You are making up things...There is a washing of regeneration, believers follow Jesus in the washing of regeneration, which is baptism.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
For some? Believing onto salvation may be the last non dead work they do. For if they have an ingrained religious streak. They may resort to seeking dead works to do after they are saved by the LIVING work. That was the problem with the Jewish believers as seen in Hebrews 6:4-6. For theses Jewish believers returned to the Temple to offer animal sacrifices for their sins. They rejected the atonement of Jesus as valid for their sins. Dead works. Those works are dead works.
This is more nonsense on your part... No one is talking about animal sacrifices...
The 'alive' work of believing is what saves the believer and brings him into regeneration.
Devils also believe, so how are they not saved?
Good works? Finding oneself being guided by the Spirit, and being enabled by God's power of grace, into discovering works. Works that He planned or you? Is adding to your post salvation experience 'good' works. Good works that God wants and approves of. Works that were custom made by God for the believer. Works that the Spirit filled believer should be finding himself doing. Performing them them as they come his way from God.

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:10​

We do not need to go looking for works to do.

If we walk in grace and truth? And, keep growing in knowledge? The works God desires for us to do will find us as God brings them our way. We should find ourselves doing what we did not go looking for.

At times we may not even know we are doing good works. For a transformed mind that comes from God's grace will make the works seem to simply be the right thing to do.

Some churches make a list of works for its members to do. They do not leave room for God to guide the believer into works they will find themselves doing...

When we are given a "list" of works to do? It then becomes like following a script = dead works.

grace and peace .....
seems like you are writing your own gospel here...
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Could you please explain?

How were we created in Christ Jesus?
"and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." - Colossians 2:12 RSV​
As we read here "in baptism, . . . you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God." This is spiritual resurrection from the dead. Elsewhere Paul talks about this re-creation this way:

"he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit," - Titus 3:5 RSV​
In Romans six Paul put it this way:

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life." - Romans 6:3-4 RSV​
John put it like this in Revelation 20:

" . . . This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him . . ." - from Revelation 20:5-6 RSV​
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
They stumble because they refuse to believe in [Christ] the word and are appointed for perdition.1 Peter 2:7-8
GeneZ said:
The Pharisees (and legalists today) are doing prescribed deeds as to gain the approval of God.
And idiots reject the prescribed deeds approved by God.
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” Acts 17
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:4-5
Devils also believe, so how are they not saved?
That's because their belief gravitates elsewhere:
“Go away Holy One! Have you come to destroy us?" (Luke 4:34)
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” (Matt 8:29)
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
“The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,..."
They stumble because they refuse to believe in [Christ] the word and are appointed for perdition.1 Peter 2:7-8
GeneZ said:
The Pharisees (and legalists today) are doing prescribed deeds as to gain the approval of God.
Newbirth said:
And idiots reject the prescribed deeds approved by God.
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all men by raising Him from the dead.” Acts 17
Newbirth said:
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:4-5
Newbirth said:
Devils also believe, so how are they not saved?
That's because their belief gravitates elsewhere:
“Go away Holy One! Have you come to destroy us?" (Luke 4:34) Brood of vipers; They have despised the Holy One. (Isa 1:4)
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” (Matt 8:29)
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That is foolishness. How many times does a person get saved for one to use a phrase like... when you first got saved? Faith is determined by action, not by mental acceptance. the scripture says faith comes by hearing the word of God... Therefore all who have heard the word of God have faith. It is those who act on what they hear. They are the ones who are saved.

Salvation is not a one time action...
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

By your religion I suppose.

And idiots reject the prescribed deeds approved by God.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

You got that all wrong... Believing in Jesus is obeying God's commands and doing everything that Jesus commands...
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

You are making up things...There is a washing of regeneration, believers follow Jesus in the washing of regeneration, which is baptism.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is more nonsense on your part... No one is talking about animal sacrifices...

Devils also believe, so how are they not saved?

seems like you are writing your own gospel here...


"Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
" John 8:43


"Hearing" .. meant "perceiving and understand correctly."

Like in...

"Yeah, I hear what you are saying."

I can say many things to you to correct your erroneous thinking. But, you will not hear me.

Jesus stated ... "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." Mat 11:15

Faith comes by hearing!

Just having ears to perceive sound does not make one a hearer to God.

"Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
" John 8:43

Can you hear me? Or only your own bias that is filled with anger?
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
you still have to work out your own salvation bro...
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
You have to work out your salvation. Yes. Its your salvation.

It does not say you have to work out in fear and trembling to have salvation.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
That is foolishness. How many times does a person get saved for one to use a phrase like... when you first got saved? Faith is determined by action, not by mental acceptance. the scripture says faith comes by hearing the word of God... Therefore all who have heard the word of God have faith. It is those who act on what they hear. They are the ones who are saved.

Salvation is not a one time action...
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

By your religion I suppose.

And idiots reject the prescribed deeds approved by God.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

You got that all wrong... Believing in Jesus is obeying God's commands and doing everything that Jesus commands...
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

You are making up things...There is a washing of regeneration, believers follow Jesus in the washing of regeneration, which is baptism.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This is more nonsense on your part... No one is talking about animal sacrifices...

Devils also believe, so how are they not saved?

seems like you are writing your own gospel here...

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
When you believed in Jesus and entered into regeneration?​
That was a LIVING work! Not a dead work.​

Saved not by works, One work only.

(and, you argue against that?)
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Salvation is not a one time action...
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

You could benefit by knowing the following.


Jesus was speaking to Jews about enduring to the end. Not Christians.

Christians did not come into being until the baptism of the Holy Spirit was activated after redemption of the Cross and the ascension and glorification of Jesus Christ. That is when believers became a new creation in Christ.

As a rabbi Jesus was teaching Jews what they understood from the Torah. The Jews understood about the Millennial kingdom when the Messiah would rule over them and the entire earth. When Jesus spoke about enduring to the end? As Jews, he was describing not the church age. What was being described was the Tribulation time on earth just before Christ returns. Matthew 24:5-13 was describing what Jews on earth will face during the Tribulation. As for the Church? She will be raptured and not present on earth at that time.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.
For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.
And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will
rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines,
pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of
sorrows.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated
by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray
one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up
and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many
will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.


Jesus was telling his Jewish disciple that those Jews who endures to the end of the Tribulation will be delivered (saved).
They will find themselves entering into the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth!


Now go ahead and try to nullify that one, too?

But, others here may get it. And, be edified just the same.

Thanks for being a sounding board so truth can be brought into the light........
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
They stumble because they refuse to believe in [Christ] the word and are appointed for perdition.1 Peter 2:7-8


Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” Acts 17

In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. John 1:4-5

That's because their belief gravitates elsewhere:
“Go away Holy One! Have you come to destroy us?" (Luke 4:34)
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?” (Matt 8:29)
These passages are a testimony against your belief that Jesus is God...
 
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