Are we justified by faith when we have faith?

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Because you refuse to acknowledge that you are baptized into Christ. Therefore you were baptized in the Southern Baptist manner not int Christ's death.

2 Corinthians 4:3
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

That is a confession of you obeying the baptists and not Jesus. I suppose nothing has changed in those 59 years.
Actually a LOT has changed. What HASN'T changed is that 59 years later, I'm STILL Born again by FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross for me.

At least the process of Circumcision was nicely explained as to "Spiritual significance" in the OLD Testament, and it was a permanent PHYSICAL evidence of one's place in the Jewish community (now not so much since male babies are circumcised routinely for hygienic reasons). Water baptism in the New Testament, not so much. I can SAY that I was baptized, but there's no physical evidence that it ever happened.
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will visit and I will call into account all those who are circumcised [physically] and yet uncircumcised [spiritually of the heart]—Jeremiah 9:25

For he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and [true] circumcision is of the heart, a spiritual renewal in Christ. His praise is not from men but from God. Rom 2:29
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ; Col 2:11

Christ Our Cornerstone— For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, Eph 2:18-19

Indeed.
God appointed Christ as judge of the living and the dead. Acts 10:42
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him
. John 3:36
What you quote is not concerning the Jews who lived before the Cross.
Circumcise your minds and hearts; be no longer stubborn and hardened. Deut 10:16
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord... Jer 4:4 ...so that you may live. Deut 30:6
Before the Cross the disciples were yet being Jews, not Christians.
But as the apostle Paul said, "Not all have faith' not all have believed the gospel.
You stubborn and hardened people, still heathen and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit.
As your forefathers [were], so you [are and so you do]! Acts 7:51 Whose end will be according to their works.
After the Cross all Jews who believed ceased being Jews. They became a new creation in Christ.
But now that faith has come...you are all one in Christ Jesus; Gal 3:25-28

To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles,
so that through faith all receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. Gal 3:14

Do not defraud your brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 1 Thess 4:6
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” ... Deut 32:35 ...and there is no partiality. Col 3:24-25
Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us [who believe] 2 Thess 1:6-7
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
Circumcise your minds and hearts; be no longer stubborn and hardened. Deut 10:16
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord... Jer 4:4 ...so that you may live. Deut 30:6

But as the apostle Paul said, "Not all have faith' not all have believed the gospel.
You stubborn and hardened people, still heathen and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit.
As your forefathers [were], so you [are and so you do]! Acts 7:51 Whose end will be according to their works.

But now that faith has come...you are all one in Christ Jesus; Gal 3:25-28

To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles,
so that through faith all receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. Gal 3:14

Do not defraud your brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 1 Thess 4:6
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” ... Deut 32:35 ...and there is no partiality. Col 3:24-25
Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us [who believe] 2 Thess 1:6-7
You are not addressing the things I say.

Its as if the words I used contain keywords that triggered you to comment on a word, but not the thought in which the word was contained.

Its an odd way to communicate. Its as if I am communicating with an Alexis that needs some updating. For you grab onto a word in the thought, but not the thought itself.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Circumcise your minds and hearts; be no longer stubborn and hardened. Deut 10:16
Circumcise yourselves to the Lord... Jer 4:4 ...so that you may live. Deut 30:6


But as the apostle Paul said, "Not all have faith' not all have believed the gospel.
You stubborn and hardened people, still heathen and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit.
As your forefathers [were], so you [are and so you do]! Acts 7:51 Whose end will be according to their works.

But now that faith has come...you are all one in Christ Jesus; Gal 3:25-28

To the end that through [their receiving] Christ Jesus, the blessing [promised] to Abraham might come upon the Gentiles,
so that through faith all receive the promise of the Holy Spirit. Gal 3:14

Do not defraud your brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 1 Thess 4:6
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” ... Deut 32:35 ...and there is no partiality. Col 3:24-25
Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us [who believe] 2 Thess 1:6-7
You are not addressing the things I say.
You stated that circumcision of the heart through the Spirit did not concern Jewish believers before the cross, the verses posted [highlighted] indicate otherwise.
Its as if the words I used contain keywords that triggered you to comment on a word, but not the thought in which the word was contained. Its an odd way to communicate. Its as if I am communicating with an Alexis that needs some updating.
At the very least, Alexis would have to be programmed by someone who understood what it meant to get a new heart and spirit to be updated.
For you grab onto a word in the thought, but not the thought itself.
You got me, I read some of your exchanges with Newbirth and your confused thoughts were nothing to write home about.
But don't go putting me on ignore like you threatened to do with NB, dazzle me with your brilliance.
 
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GeneZ

Well-known member
You stated that circumcision of the heart through the Spirit did not concern Jewish believers before the cross, the verses posted [highlighted] indicate otherwise.
Jeremiah did not say the day had come.

That also spoke of a final judgment of the unbeliever Jews (uncircumsised spiritually of the heart).

The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will visit and I will call into account
all those who are circumcised [physically] and yet uncircumcised [spiritually of the heart]
—Jeremiah 9:25
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
Jeremiah did not say the day had come. That spoke of a final judgment.
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13
The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will visit and I will call into account all those who are circumcised [physically] and yet uncircumcised [spiritually of the heart]—Jeremiah 9:25
The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5

The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18
Again, its like you are just adding footnotes ... Its not a continuation of what was said.

I made a comment which you did not address properly.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
GeneZ said:
Jeremiah did not say the day had come. That spoke of a final judgment.
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13
GeneZ said:
The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will visit and I will call into account all those who are circumcised [physically] and yet uncircumcised [spiritually of the heart]—Jeremiah 9:25
The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18
Again, its like you are just adding footnotes ... Its not a continuation of what was said.
Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13

The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18

Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8
Why do you say things? To agree? Disagree?

Its hard to determine why you state what you do. You need to try to communicate a completed thought as to why you say what you do. Otherwise? Its more like you are simply filling in answers to a quiz that no one is giving.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13

The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18

Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8
Why not put the "gibberish" member on Ignore then?

I hope you do.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13

The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18

Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8
You are witnessing to me to get saved now?
On the contrary, he who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself... And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:10-11
As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another; 1 Peter 4:10
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Actually a LOT has changed. What HASN'T changed is that 59 years later, I'm STILL Born again by FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross for me.
Then you are probably still a babe in Christ... Those who believe have purified their souls in obeying the truth.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
At least the process of Circumcision was nicely explained as to "Spiritual significance" in the OLD Testament, and it was a permanent PHYSICAL evidence of one's place in the Jewish community (now not so much since male babies are circumcised routinely for hygienic reasons). Water baptism in the New Testament, not so much. I can SAY that I was baptized, but there's no physical evidence that it ever happened
If there is no physical evidence (action and behavior), then you have not been born again...
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
GeneZ said:
Jeremiah did not say the day had come. That spoke of a final judgment.
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13
GeneZ said:
The Lord says, “The time is coming when I will visit and I will call into account all those who are circumcised [physically] and yet uncircumcised [spiritually of the heart]—Jeremiah 9:25
The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18
GeneZ said:
Again, its like you are just adding footnotes ... Its not a continuation of what was said.
Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8
Why do you say things? To agree? Disagree?

Its hard to determine why you state what you do. You need to try to communicate a completed thought as to why you say what you do. Otherwise? Its more like you are simply filling in answers to a quiz that no one is giving.
What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. 2 Cor 6
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Jeremiah said, “Cursed is the man who trusts in flesh" Jer 17:5 For they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, Jer 2:13

The judgment of those who reject the Lord is already determined.
“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
They stumble because they do not believe in Christ. 1 Peter 2:7-8
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, ..." John 3:18

Again, I'm not adding anything to your gibberish, since you're all over the place.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life,
and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Colossians 2:6
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light; Ephesians 5:8

What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. 2 Cor 6
Why not put the "gibberish" member on Ignore then?
I hope you do.
Hopes placed in mortals die with them; but the righteous is delivered from trouble; Prov 11:7

For whoever sows to the flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 6:8
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Hopes placed in mortals die with them; but the righteous is delivered from trouble; Prov 11:7

For whoever sows to the flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. Gal 6:8
I am putting you on Ignore. For what you do is to effectively appear like you are having a dialogue, but while you do, you ignore the substance of what is being said and go off into nothingness while maintaining keywords as give an appearance of covering the subject.

Good bye!
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
@Matt Slick
Ever reach in a pocket of some new clothes you bought and pull out a printed ticket saying that the garment passed QC?
When God sees *faith* in a person? He stamped that person "Justified."
When faith is found in that person? That faith is what passes God''s quality control inspection. We are now His.
Its not that complicated.
Do you mean like Abraham the believer? Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
Romans 4:3 Galatians 3:6 James 2:23

6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.” Rom 4
@Newbirth

Jesus was speaking to Jews about enduring to the end. Not Christians.
11 And Abraham received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith
while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe;

20 He did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Rom 4
I am putting you on Ignore. For what you do is to effectively appear like you are having a dialogue, but while you do, you ignore the substance...
Suit yourself, however the substance, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

25 Now that you have faith, you no longer live under a tutor;
26 In Christ Jesus you are all children/sons of God through faith.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 In Christ, there is no difference between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female.
You are all one, united; joined to Christ Jesus.
29 You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s [seed].
You inherited all of God’s blessings because of the promise God made to Abraham; Gal 3

He said to your father Abraham, ‘Through your seed all the ·nations [or families] on the earth will be blessed [Gen. 22:18; 26:4].’
God has raised up his Servant Jesus and sent him to bless you by turning each of you away from wickedness. Acts 3:25-26

But if the wicked turns and does what is right and keeps my covenant, he will not die; he will certainly live. Ezekiel 18:21

For the Lord is the only one who can give life, and he will grant the blessing he promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Deut 30:20
 
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Rejoran

Active member
I am putting you on Ignore. For what you do is to effectively appear like you are having a dialogue, but while you do, you ignore the substance of what is being said and go off into nothingness while maintaining keywords as give an appearance of covering the subject.

Good bye!
I agree.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Do you mean like Abraham the believer? Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6
Romans 4:3 Galatians 3:6 James 2:23

6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.” Rom 4

11 And Abraham received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith
while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe;

20 He did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Rom 4
I am putting you on Ignore. For what you do is to effectively appear like you are having a dialogue, but while you do, you ignore the substance
Suit yourself, however the substance, is found in Christ. Col 2:17

25 Now that you have faith, you no longer live under a tutor;
26 In Christ Jesus you are all children/sons of God through faith.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 In Christ, there is no difference between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female.
You are all one, united; joined to Christ Jesus.
29 You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s [seed].
You inherited all of God’s blessings because of the promise God made to Abraham; Gal 3

He said to your father Abraham, ‘Through your seed all the ·nations [or families] on the earth will be blessed [Gen. 22:18; 26:4].’
God has raised up his Servant Jesus and sent him to bless you by turning each of you away from wickedness. Acts 3:25-26

But if the wicked turns and does what is right and keeps my covenant, he will not die; he will certainly live. Ezekiel 18:21

For the Lord is the only one who can give life, and he will grant the blessing he promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Deut 30:20
I am putting you on Ignore. For what you do is to effectively appear like you are having a dialogue, but while you do, you ignore the substance
Can a believer partake of a new life in Christ with an infidel? What agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell among them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 2 Cor 6:15-16
 
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