Are we justified by faith when we have faith?

Thistle

Well-known member
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Romans 4:5).


Notice that the verse says when a person believes, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Matt, that is not a statement about when, it is a statement about why.
If baptism is necessary for salvation then this verse cannot be true.
No, we are still saved through faith just like Paul says in Ephesians.
We are either justified by faith when we have faith, or we are not justified by faith when we have faith.
I have faith in my accountant when I sign my tax return and mail it, as instructed. Am I supposed to have greater faith in my accountant than Jesus [Mark 16:16]?
If we are justified at baptism, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith.
Faith is not just belief that, but it's also belief in. That involves the idea of relying on it, to it's intended purpose, hence the expression "stepping out on faith."
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
First of all Genesis is neither Romans nor Galatians. Second no where in that verse does it say anyone is saved by faith alone. It's says righteousness not salvation.
OT salvation was right standing with God, Paul supports that in Romans 4:1-8!
 

UncleAbee

Active member
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Romans 4:5).


Notice that the verse says when a person believes, his faith is credited as righteousness. If baptism is necessary for salvation then this verse cannot be true.

We are either justified by faith when we have faith, or we are not justified by faith when we have faith.

If we are justified at baptism, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith.
Justification and salvation are two different things. We are justified when we believe but salvation is a future event. Look at what Paul says in Phil 3:11-12 - "11 if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus." Paul was justified when he believed but based on his words he has not attained salvation yet. This is why we must be baptized and continue in the faith. All these things lead us to salvation.
 

YeshuaFan

Active member
Justification and salvation are two different things. We are justified when we believe but salvation is a future event. Look at what Paul says in Phil 3:11-12 - "11 if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus." Paul was justified when he believed but based on his words he has not attained salvation yet. This is why we must be baptized and continue in the faith. All these things lead us to salvation.
When we get botrn again, we are fully justified and receive the promised Holy Spirit right when we believe in Lord Jesus!
 
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