Are you able to post an overview of what you believe?

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Are you able to post an overview of what you believe?

Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Are you able to post an overview of what you believe?

Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
Sounds either like dannyfortruth or messenger or the one who you two were being taught all this stuff from and from the first CARM Forum before it crashed, but I forgot what the teachers name was, am I correct?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Sounds either like dannyfortruth or messenger or the one who you two were being taught all this stuff from and from the first CARM Forum before it crashed, but I forgot what the teachers name was, am I correct?

No. I do not know either of those two individuals. This is my personal overview of what I believe.

So...

Are YOU able to post an overview of what you believe?
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
No. I do not know either of those two individuals. This is my personal overview of what I believe.

So...

Are YOU able to post an overview of what you believe?
I will consider it, but it will be obvious to most who post here soon enough and already is to many of them being they have known me for many years. I will say this, I believe that there is only one Yahweh God and who is one person.

Jesus is no more the literal Son of God of God's own substance anymore than David or Solomon was who God also declared to be his Son in the singular and as we see in Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14 and which because Jesus came from line of descendants according to God's promise through Mary, those passages were also applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1:5

When in the OT, someone was declared to be God's Son and God declared to be his Father, it was always referring to a human heir to the throne of God and not a literal Son.

When Jesus was called in John's gospel alone, "the only begotten Son:", it refers to Jesus as being the firstborn Son God's foreknowledge and the only one without any sin and unto which all of the others would be subjected to at the end of the age and also conformed to the image of and as per Romans 8:29, and therefore unique above all others.

God has no literal Son of his own ontology and therefore when the Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal unto God by calling himself God's Son and by calling God his Father, it was not based on their OT scriptures at all because it never meant any such thing.

Therefore, it was a lie that they received from their Father the Devil because of their hatred for Jesus being he exposed them as hypocrites in the eyes of all the people and therefore the Devil twisted the scriptures in their minds in order to give them a justification for condemning Jesus to his death.


John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Therefore, when anyone believes the same as the Jews did, that Jesus was making himself equal unto God by calling God his Father and himself God's Son, they are also believing a lie and if they teach it, they are also teaching a lie and it doesn't matter whether they believe they are or not, because it is not given to mean this in God's word anywhere period.


Jesus was born in the copy of the identical mind = Logos of his Father Yahweh but was also required to maintain it through being tempted in every way like all men and all through his life without any disobedience or sin and which he did.

Thus, Jesus is the Logos made flesh and when we see him, therefore we see the Father being Jesus emptied himself of any life from himself in order to reveal only the Father all through his life.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45
The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”



John 14:8-10​

New International Version​

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.



Notice, when Jesus answered Philip, he very clearly went on to tell Philip that it was the Father's answer to Philip and not his own as per verse 10.

He likewise also went on to explain why when they saw him, they saw the Father also and it had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with him being God himself or equal with God either, but rather it was because God the Father was dwelling within Jesus and manifesting himself through Jesus.

For Paul also said the same thing, "For God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" and "For in him dwells all the fullness of the Divine nature bodily".

For Jesus never acquired or sought out any identity of his own but rather he continually emptied himself of his own identity (See Philippians 2:5-8), in order to reveal his Father and in this way his Father would become the bottom line of our affection and worship and Jesus would be the one mediator as a true man between God and man.

1 John 5:20

New American Standard Bible 1995

20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
 
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Yahchristian

Well-known member
Presentist.

Yes, I am Presentist.

Presentist is the handle I used when I frequented the eschatology forum because it is a label for my view on that.

Now that I primarily visit this forum I am using Yahchristian because it is a label for my view on this topic.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Are you able to post an overview of what you believe?

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

And here is an analogy of my view...
At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says Yahweh God is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents Yahweh."
"There is only one Yahweh and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine there is nothing but air, nothing but Yahweh."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the air outside (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one Yahweh), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the air outside the room, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The air outside the room (outside the universe) would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"It is all the same air, so there is no difference in the air other than location and form."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the air outside? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the air outside, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the air outside and the air in the balloon along with the air in the room. Yahweh is the Father and the Son along with the Spirit."
"So now we have the Father (the air outside), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (Yahweh)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas God CREATED a human spirit and soul (represented by the water) for each of us, God himself (represented by the air) BECAME the human spirit and soul of Jesus."
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

I have updated my statement and added scripture references...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
And here is an analogy of my view...

I have decided to start using the name GOD (all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than elohim (a title). Here is my updated analogy...

At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says GOD is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents GOD."
"There is only one GOD and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine there is nothing but air, nothing but GOD."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the air outside (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one GOD), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the air outside the room, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The air outside the room (outside the universe) would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"It is all the same air, so there is no difference in the air other than location and form."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the air outside? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the air outside, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the air outside and the air in the balloon along with the air in the room. GOD is the Father and the Son along with the Spirit."
"So now we have the Father (the air outside), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (GOD)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas GOD CREATED a spirit and soul (represented by the water) for each of us, GOD himself (represented by the air) BECAME the spirit and soul of Jesus."
 

Tanachreader

Active member
I have decided to start using the name GOD (all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than elohim (a title). Here is my updated analogy...

At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says GOD is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents GOD."
"There is only one GOD and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine there is nothing but air, nothing but GOD."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the air outside (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one GOD), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the air outside the room, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The air outside the room (outside the universe) would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"It is all the same air, so there is no difference in the air other than location and form."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the air outside? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the air outside, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the air outside and the air in the balloon along with the air in the room. GOD is the Father and the Son along with the Spirit."
"So now we have the Father (the air outside), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (GOD)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas GOD CREATED a spirit and soul (represented by the water) for each of us, GOD himself (represented by the air) BECAME the spirit and soul of Jesus."
The Lord Jesus is the WORD, Son of God.

He can spin the Universe on His index finger like a basket ball.

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Are you able to post an overview of what you believe?

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Here is an overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Here is an analogy...
At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says GOD is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents GOD."
"There is only one GOD and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine there is nothing but air, nothing but GOD."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the air outside (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one GOD), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the air outside the room, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The air outside the room (outside the universe) would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"It is all the same air, so there is no difference in the air other than location and form."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the air outside? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the air outside, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the air outside and the air in the balloon along with the air in the room. GOD is the Father and the Son along with the Spirit."
"So now we have the Father (the air outside), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (GOD)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us (represented by the water), GOD himself (represented by the air) became the spirit and soul of Jesus."
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

I must say, I am amazed that so few on this forum are able or willing to provide an overview of what they believe. Well, I am updating my overview by changing space-time to spacetime.


GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

GOD

English Bibles and I use the word GOD (with all caps) to signify the underlying Hebrew word is YHWH (a proper name) rather than Elohim (a title).
Exodus 23:17 ESV… Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord GOD.

is spirit
John 4:24 ESV… God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

and is the only one who is eternal...
Deuteronomy 33:27 ESV… The eternal God is your dwelling place, and underneath are the everlasting arms. And he thrust out the enemy before you and said, ‘Destroy.’
Isaiah 37:16 ESV… “O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

GOD is also in the universe as spirit
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

and as a human...
1 Timothy 3:16 ESV… Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God
Genesis 1:2 ESV… The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God
Luke 1:35 ESV… And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1 Corinthians 8:6 ESV… yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Here is an overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

Here is an analogy...
At a Bible study, the teacher says...
"I would like to give an analogy of how the second century Christians understood the distinctions of the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and GOD."
The teacher turns off the lights.
"The Bible says GOD is spirit, so imagine that all the air in the world represents GOD."
"There is only one GOD and he is everywhere, he is omnipresent."
"And imagine there is nothing but air, nothing but GOD."
"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
The teacher holds an air balloon in front of them and turns on the lights.
"Instantly we have this room (which represents the universe) and we have an air balloon (which represents the Son) in addition to the air outside (which represents the Father)."
"There is only one air (one GOD), and that air is omnipresent."
"But for clarity, we can distinguish between the air outside the room, the air inside the room, and the air inside the balloon."
"The air outside the room (outside the universe) would represent the Father, the air inside the room (inside the universe) would represent the Spirit, and the air inside the balloon (incarnate in the universe) would represent the Son."
"It is all the same air, so there is no difference in the air other than location and form."
"So when someone asks, are you saying the Son is the Father? In other words, is the air in the balloon the air outside? My answer would be, in the sense that the air in the balloon is the air outside, Yes. The Son is the Father."
"But it would be more proper to say, air is the air outside and the air in the balloon along with the air in the room. GOD is the Father and the Son along with the Spirit."
"So now we have the Father (the air outside), the Spirit (the air inside), and the Son (the air in the balloon)."
"In our analogy, a balloon represents human nature. So the Son is human nature fully indwelt by air (GOD)."
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."
The teacher brings out a basket of water balloons.
"Now these water balloons represent each of us. We are human nature (the balloon) indwelt by our spirit (the water)."
"So the Son has human nature just like we do (represented by the balloons), but the difference being..."
"Whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us (represented by the water), GOD himself (represented by the air) became the spirit and soul of Jesus."
 

aeg4971

Member
I will consider it, but it will be obvious to most who post here soon enough and already is to many of them being they have known me for many years. I will say this, I believe that there is only one Yahweh God and who is one person.

Jesus is no more the literal Son of God of God's own substance anymore than David or Solomon was who God also declared to be his Son in the singular and as we see in Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14 and which because Jesus came from line of descendants according to God's promise through Mary, those passages were also applied to Jesus in Hebrews 1:5

When in the OT, someone was declared to be God's Son and God declared to be his Father, it was always referring to a human heir to the throne of God and not a literal Son.

When Jesus was called in John's gospel alone, "the only begotten Son:", it refers to Jesus as being the firstborn Son God's foreknowledge and the only one without any sin and unto which all of the others would be subjected to at the end of the age and also conformed to the image of and as per Romans 8:29, and therefore unique above all others.

God has no literal Son of his own ontology and therefore when the Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal unto God by calling himself God's Son and by calling God his Father, it was not based on their OT scriptures at all because it never meant any such thing.

Therefore, it was a lie that they received from their Father the Devil because of their hatred for Jesus being he exposed them as hypocrites in the eyes of all the people and therefore the Devil twisted the scriptures in their minds in order to give them a justification for condemning Jesus to his death.


John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Therefore, when anyone believes the same as the Jews did, that Jesus was making himself equal unto God by calling God his Father and himself God's Son, they are also believing a lie and if they teach it, they are also teaching a lie and it doesn't matter whether they believe they are or not, because it is not given to mean this in God's word anywhere period.


Jesus was born in the copy of the identical mind = Logos of his Father Yahweh but was also required to maintain it through being tempted in every way like all men and all through his life without any disobedience or sin and which he did.

Thus, Jesus is the Logos made flesh and when we see him, therefore we see the Father being Jesus emptied himself of any life from himself in order to reveal only the Father all through his life.

John 12:
44 Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45
The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”



John 14:8-10​

New International Version​

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.



Notice, when Jesus answered Philip, he very clearly went on to tell Philip that it was the Father's answer to Philip and not his own as per verse 10.

He likewise also went on to explain why when they saw him, they saw the Father also and it had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with him being God himself or equal with God either, but rather it was because God the Father was dwelling within Jesus and manifesting himself through Jesus.

For Paul also said the same thing, "For God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" and "For in him dwells all the fullness of the Divine nature bodily".

For Jesus never acquired or sought out any identity of his own but rather he continually emptied himself of his own identity (See Philippians 2:5-8), in order to reveal his Father and in this way his Father would become the bottom line of our affection and worship and Jesus would be the one mediator as a true man between God and man.

1 John 5:20​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
God does not just foreknown of a son because the Word Himself proceeds.

......Alan
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
God does not just foreknown of a son because the Word Himself proceeds.

......Alan
Yes and he proceeded out of God's mind and thoughts the Logos and therefore from God's foreknowledge of him from the beginning and where he was first conceived also.

Peter says in 1 Peter 1:20, Who truly was foreknown "prognosis" before the foundation of the world but was in these last days manifested for you".

Revelation 13:8, "the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world".

Romans 8:29 "for those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see that if the saints were foreknown to be conformed to the image of Jesus the human Son of God, then Jesus would have to be the firstborn who was foreknown before them.

For Paul is most definitely speaking of Jesus as a man here in Romans 8:29 because he is to be the firstborn as such among many other human brethren who will be made sons through him.

By the way, concerning your idea that Jesus existed eternally as God before he was born a human being in Bethlehem, whereas you have been deceived into believing that in Philippians 2:6, Paul is saying that Jesus pre existed as God because of the words "who existing in the form of God", I can prove that this is false, for the word "huparchon" never refers to anything that never had a beginning.


In fact it is used 60 times in the NT and it is used of God only twice but it is used of him as having a position that he only began to exist as, after he created the heavens and earth and man upon the earth.


The only two verses were this word is used of God is in Acts 17:24 and Acts 17:27.

In verse 24, Paul uses it only to speak of God who is "huparchon" Lord of heaven and earth and of course he wasn't eternally Lord of heaven and earth because heaven and earth only existed after he first created it to be Lord of it and Paul even starts by says "God who made the world", didn't he?


The same goes for verse 27, where Paul says "God is "huparchon" not far from any one of us" and again, God first created man in order not to be far from any of us, didn't he?


These are the only two verses where "huparchon" is used of God and that should cause you to pause in your false doctrines about this, for if Paul wanted to express that Jesus pre existed as God in Philippians 2:6 he wouldn't have used "huparchon" to express this and that is because the word has built into its very meaning of things having a beginning of existence.


Paul would have used a word instead like "eimi" instead, for although it can refer to things that have a beginning, it only does when the context calls for it and therefore when used of God it would mean he always existed but "huparchon" is never used of anything eternal but only of things that begin to exist period.
 
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aeg4971

Member
Yes and he proceeded out of God's mind and thoughts the Logos and therefore from God's foreknowledge of him from the beginning and where he was first conceived also.

Peter says in 1 Peter 1:20, Who truly was foreknown "prognosis" before the foundation of the world but was in these last days manifested for you".

Revelation 13:8, "the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world".

Romans 8:29 "for those whom he foreknew, them he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son that he might be the firstborn among many brethren".

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see that if the saints were foreknown to be conformed to the image of Jesus the human Son of God, then Jesus would have to be the firstborn who was foreknown before them.

For Paul is most definitely speaking of Jesus as a man here in Romans 8:29 because he is to be the firstborn as such among many other human brethren who will be made sons through him.

By the way, concerning your idea that Jesus existed eternally as God before he was born a human being in Bethlehem, whereas you have been deceived into believing that in Philippians 2:6, Paul is saying that Jesus pre existed as God because of the words "who existing in the form of God", I can prove that this is false, for the word "huparchon" never refers to anything that never had a beginning.


In fact it is used 60 times in the NT and it is used of God only twice but it is used of him as having a position that he only began to exist as, after he created the heavens and earth and man upon the earth.


The only two verses were this word is used of God is in Acts 17:24 and Acts 17:27.

In verse 24, Paul uses it only to speak of God who is "huparchon" Lord of heaven and earth and of course he wasn't eternally Lord of heaven and earth because heaven and earth only existed after he first created it to be Lord of it and Paul even starts by says "God who made the world", didn't he?


The same goes for verse 27, where Paul says "God is "huparchon" not far from any one of us" and again, God first created man in order not to be far from any of us, didn't he?


These are the only two verses where "huparchon" is used of God and that should cause you to pause in your false doctrines about this, for if Paul wanted to express that Jesus pre existed as God in Philippians 2:6 he wouldn't have used "huparchon" to express this and that is because the word has built into its very meaning of things having a beginning of existence.


Paul would have used a word instead like "eimi" instead, for although it can refer to things that have a beginning, it only does when the context calls for it and therefore when used of God it would mean he always existed but "huparchon" is never used of anything eternal but only of things that begin to exist period.

As long as you believe God mind is not in fact the very substance of Divinity itself , then we will never agree no matter how many scriptures you quote . We start from Divine Wisdom/Word itself is substantively a distinct person of the Son.

Not one scripture you post above that we would not start from" God has from all eternity generated His consubstantial Word, and the Word was made flesh and made His dwelling among us ; then we quote scriptures to accommodate your earthly man Biblical suppositions.

Hope that helps...... Alan
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
As long as you believe God mind is not in fact the very substance of Divinity itself , then we will never agree no matter how many scriptures you quote . We start from Divine Wisdom/Word itself is substantively a distinct person of the Son.

Not one scripture you post above that we would not start from" God has from all eternity generated His consubstantial Word, and the Word was made flesh and made His dwelling among us ; then we quote scriptures to accommodate your earthly man Biblical suppositions.

Hope that helps...... Alan
Sorry but when the Mind of God the Logos was made flesh, it doesn't mean that God himself became flesh but only that is Mind was duplicated into the man Jesus Christ and the same way that our being made in God's image does not mean that God himself became Adam or his offspring either.


If you read Hebrews 1:3 and look up that Greek word "charakter" translated as "exact image or express image", it refers to a copy from one substance that was either pressed or etched into another substance and thus the Mind of God = the Logos, was copied into the human Son of God Jesus Christ.


For that is the history of the meaning of that Greek word "charakter" and which was used to speak of the image of a Roman Emperor pressed or etched onto a metal coin or the image on a signet ring pressed into a wax seal.


By the way, the above in red is nothing more than the carnal human reasoning of unconverted fools who are in love with their own human intellects instead of God and his truth, for no such thing is found in the scriptures at all.
 
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Hark

Active member
IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?

Seeing how the false charge of adding to the Book of 1 John by Erasmus under protest, has been proven at the link by the list of extra-biblical evidence that 1 John 5:7 has been originally scripture going as far back as 250 A.D. is why all need to readdress that matter with Jesus Christ.

Only God answers prayers for how the Father is glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Only God judges for why the Father judges no man and why we will be judged by the Son per John 5:22-23 & Hebrews 4:12-16

Since God as Saviour will not share His glory with any other and yet Jesus is the Saviour is why Jesus is God of the Triune God.

Thanks for starting & sharing in the discussion. The call to lean on Jesus Christ to help us prove everything by everyone, even ourselves, is the message for how we are to follow & abide in Him daily to avoid bearing false witness of Him by denying His deity & being at risk of dying in sin.
 

aeg4971

Member
Sorry but when the Mind of God the Logos was made flesh, it doesn't mean that God himself became flesh but only that is Mind was duplicated into the man Jesus Christ and the same way that our being made in God's image does not mean that God himself became Adam or his offspring either.


If you read Hebrews 1:3 and look up that Greek word "charakter" translated as "exact image or express image", it refers to a copy from one substance that was either pressed or etched into another substance and thus the Mind of God = the Logos, was copied into the human Son of God Jesus Christ.


For that is the history of the meaning of that Greek word "charakter" and which was used to speak of the image of a Roman Emperor pressed or etched onto a metal coin or the image on a signet ring pressed into a wax seal.


By the way, the above in red is nothing more than the carnal human reasoning of unconverted fools who are in love with their own human intellects instead of God and his truth, for no such thing is found in the scriptures at all.

But only His mind was duplicated. That sounds like some 21st century humanism ever heard of such. Sounds more like a super creature than God the Almighty .

Since you teach semi Arian heresy even though you probably erroneously think you are sola scriptura. I will just quote the same scripture .

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
But only His mind was duplicated. That sounds like some 21st century humanism ever heard of such. Sounds more like a super creature than God the Almighty

That is because your own cult replaced understanding the scriptures by the Holy Spirit with trying to understand them by the carnal human intellect early on in the history of the church and therefore anything other than what has been accepted for years, would sound like that to you but it has nothing to do with humanism but everything to do with what the Bible truly teaches.
.

Since you teach semi Arian heresy even though you probably erroneously think you are sola scriptura. I will just quote the same scripture .

That is your idea and not based on the truth of the scriptures and the biggest heresy ever formulated, is that of the doctrine of the trinity dude, for it is totally unbiblical completely.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Being you want to keep posting only part of the text, I will post the rest of what Paul said right after it and which proves that you have done with God exactly what Paul speaks of also and which was to make God into an image like that of human flesh subject to death.

Therefore you are without excuse, for you are making God a human being and just like the Greeks believed about their mythological gods who could become men also and which by the way, Rome had also adapted into their belief systems after they conquered the Greeks.


Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [o]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and [p]crawling creatures.
 

aeg4971

Member
That is because your own cult replaced understanding the scriptures by the Holy Spirit with trying to understand them by the carnal human intellect early on in the history of the church and therefore anything other than what has been accepted for years, would sound like that to you but it has nothing to do with humanism but everything to do with what the Bible truly teaches.


That is your idea and not based on the truth of the scriptures and the biggest heresy ever formulated, is that of the doctrine of the trinity dude, for it is totally unbiblical completely.

Being you want to keep posting only part of the text, I will post the rest of what Paul said right after it and which proves that you have done with God exactly what Paul speaks of also and which was to make God into an image like that of human flesh subject to death.

Therefore you are without excuse, for you are making God a human being and just like the Greeks believed about their mythological gods who could become men also and which by the way, Rome had also adapted into their belief systems after they conquered the Greeks.


Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [o]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and [p]crawling creatures.
You teach ancient semi Arian heresy with a touch of modern humanism , yet you wish for me to find some authority in you throwing around this word CULT. I am about two seconds from telling you to stop talking to me because ,I cannot take your myopic and rudimentary suppositions due to your ignorance and obstinacy.

I'm sure you mean professions of faith were decreed the moment somebody said" Jesus is the Father" and like your own heresy" Jesus is substantively less than God the Father ".

Truthfully I really view Unitarians Christology not all that much different from Islam Christology of just a man favored by Allah. You start from" just a man uttered into existence ", whereas we start from "God own eternal Word with Him by Himself made in the likeness of sinful flesh ".

......Alan
 
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