Arminian confusion

Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2.

Arminians are confused here. One reason is they take just one verse as if it stands alone from the rest of scripture. And make it teach something that just is not there.

So we’re saved because of grace, since God loves everyone so much all we have to do is choose to have faith. And by doing so, we get saved. To the Arminian, that’s grace.

They believe by believing, they are saved, and that is true because only believers are saved. But it’s not from finally making a decision to have faith. It’s from the gift of faith which comes with the new man in Christ through regeneration.

Therefore, this faith is a work of God and man finds himself believing. Man does not make himself believe by deciding to believe.

If that were possible, making oneself or deciding to believe, it would be a work of man, man’s contribution, merit, unto salvation.

The most disturbing part about it all is, they fight so hard against the fact that faith is a gift. God does the work through regeneration. That’s grace.
Arminians want no part of it.
 
S

squirrelyguy

Active member
Carbon said:
If that were possible, making oneself or deciding to believe, it would be a work of man, man’s contribution, merit, unto salvation.
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But we don't reason this way in real life, do we? If I give a panhandler $20, I don't reason to myself that he worked for that $20, or that it was somehow owed to him as wages. But if the panhandler had not taken the initiative to stand on that street corner and hold up the sign asking for help, I never would have given him the $20. It's still an act of grace on my part, but the panhandler took initiative in receiving it...without his initiative, he never would have received the gift.

So it is with salvation.
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
squirrelyguy said:
But we don't reason this way in real life, do we? If I give a panhandler $20, I don't reason to myself that he worked for that $20, or that it was somehow owed to him as wages. But if the panhandler had not taken the initiative to stand on that street corner and hold up the sign asking for help, I never would have given him the $20. It's still an act of grace on my part, but the panhandler took initiative in receiving it...without his initiative, he never would have received the gift.

So it is with salvation.
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Yeah, but...the panhandler can't even stand up and hold the sign because he is dead in his sin and transgressions. Eph 2:5. That can't happen until we have been made alive with Christ.
 
eternomade

eternomade

Well-known member
squirrelyguy said:
But we don't reason this way in real life, do we? If I give a panhandler $20, I don't reason to myself that he worked for that $20, or that it was somehow owed to him as wages. But if the panhandler had not taken the initiative to stand on that street corner and hold up the sign asking for help, I never would have given him the $20. It's still an act of grace on my part, but the panhandler took initiative in receiving it...without his initiative, he never would have received the gift.

So it is with salvation.
Click to expand...
What if you owed a debt and someone else paid it for you. Who made the first move? Anyone can come up with hypothetical situations to prove their point. Scripture refutes your hypothetical.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Carbon said:
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2.

Arminians are confused here. One reason is they take just one verse as if it stands alone from the rest of scripture. And make it teach something that just is not there.

So we’re saved because of grace, since God loves everyone so much all we have to do is choose to have faith. And by doing so, we get saved. To the Arminian, that’s grace.

They believe by believing, they are saved, and that is true because only believers are saved. But it’s not from finally making a decision to have faith. It’s from the gift of faith which comes with the new man in Christ through regeneration.

Therefore, this faith is a work of God and man finds himself believing. Man does not make himself believe by deciding to believe.

If that were possible, making oneself or deciding to believe, it would be a work of man, man’s contribution, merit, unto salvation.

The most disturbing part about it all is, they fight so hard against the fact that faith is a gift. God does the work through regeneration. That’s grace.
Arminians want no part of it.
Click to expand...
They give token credit that it is all to God's glory, that it is all Him, then prove they really do not believe it whatsoever when they start typing and speaking. In fact, they show a great aversion to Him getting all the glory, and go against texts showing it as fact, only to insert man, and ditch God, in the process.
 
S

squirrelyguy

Active member
CrowCross said:
Yeah, but...the panhandler can't even stand up and hold the sign because he is dead in his sin and transgressions. Eph 2:5. That can't happen until we have been made alive with Christ.
Click to expand...
But to press the death metaphor still further, the panhandler can't sin either, since men who are physically dead don't do anything. Is it possible that you're pressing the spiritual death metaphor in a way that Scripture does not?
 
L

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Carbon said:
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2.

Arminians are confused here. One reason is they take just one verse as if it stands alone from the rest of scripture. And make it teach something that just is not there.

So we’re saved because of grace, since God loves everyone so much all we have to do is choose to have faith. And by doing so, we get saved. To the Arminian, that’s grace.

They believe by believing, they are saved, and that is true because only believers are saved. But it’s not from finally making a decision to have faith. It’s from the gift of faith which comes with the new man in Christ through regeneration.

Therefore, this faith is a work of God and man finds himself believing. Man does not make himself believe by deciding to believe.

If that were possible, making oneself or deciding to believe, it would be a work of man, man’s contribution, merit, unto salvation.

The most disturbing part about it all is, they fight so hard against the fact that faith is a gift. God does the work through regeneration. That’s grace.
Arminians want no part of it.
Click to expand...
Precisely correct, spot on Carbon, well said. John Wesley also taught that this Prevenient Grace (Arminian View) is Universal, and is given to everyone, even if they even haven't heard of Jesus. Wow, I have to admit, I never heard of this coming from the Arminian camp. To me this sounds like a man center-theology, not God centered. This is why I said Arminians have a lofty view of man.

But the odd thing is they teach Total Depravity, and if they would understand this condition of fallen man, they would understand without God's Effectual Grace there is no Salvation at all! And this Prevenient Grace does not save or Regenerates the sinner. This sounds like Pelagianism. Are they trying to play god here, comes to my mind. They can't let go of the fatal idea, that's its ultimately up to us, to get ourselves saved, its something we do, they say, (Pelagianism/Semi-Pelagianism). So they try to locate their Salvation in their response to the Gospel, rather than in the Gospel itself; namely the good news of what God has already accomplished in Christ for his people.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
squirrelyguy said:
But to press the death metaphor still further, the panhandler can't sin either, since men who are physically dead don't do anything. Is it possible that you're pressing the spiritual death metaphor in a way that Scripture does not?
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The lost are dead spiritually, alive physically. The lost are those who are in the flesh in the Romans 8:5-9 passage, and those in the flesh cannot please God.
 
S

squirrelyguy

Active member
eternomade said:
What if you owed a debt and someone else paid it for you. Who made the first move? Anyone can come up with hypothetical situations to prove their point. Scripture refutes your hypothetical.
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Awesome...I agree completely. Let's use a Scriptural example of how our sin debts gets cancelled by God. Turn with me to the parable of the unforgiving servant in Matthew 18:21-35...
 
S

squirrelyguy

Active member
preacher4truth said:
They give token credit that it is all to God's glory, that it is all Him, then prove they really do not believe it whatsoever when they start typing and speaking. In fact, they show a great aversion to Him getting all the glory, and go against texts showing it as fact, only to insert man, and ditch God, in the process.
Click to expand...
Did I just hear you say "God, I thank YOU that I am not like other men?"
 
S

squirrelyguy

Active member
SovereignGrace said:
And I’ll rebut that with Romans 8:38-39.
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Okay, so I have no problem whatsoever with Romans 8:38-39. But did you just use the word "rebut" in regards to a parable of Jesus? As if Jesus' parable is a mistaken view of how our sin debt gets cancelled, and we can use another verse of Scripture to prove this?
 
eternomade

eternomade

Well-known member
praise_yeshua said:
Predestination is established in Jesus Christ. We have nothing without Him. You shouldn't appeal to such truths without including Jesus Christ. If you include HIM, then you will see your mistake. You will stop thinking of what God has done exclusively for you and see what God has done exclusively for Jesus Christ.
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You argued with a Bible verse with no commentary.
 
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