Arminius on Predestination

civic

Well-known member
I. We call this decree "Predestination," in Greek, Proorismon from the verb Proorizein which signifies determine, appoint, or decree any thing before you enter on its execution. According to this general notion, predestination, when attributed to God, will be his decree for the governance of all things, to which divines usually give the appellation of PROVIDENCE. (Acts ii. 28; xvii, 26.) It is customary to consider in a less general notion, so far as it has reference to rational creatures who are to be saved or damned, for instance, angels and men. It is taken in a stricter sense about the predestination of men, and then it is usually employed in two ways; for it is sometimes accommodated to both the elect and the reprobate. At other times, it is restricted to the elect alone, and then it has reprobation as its opposite. According to this last signification, in which it is almost constantly used in Scripture, (Rom. viii. 29,) we will treat on predestination.

II. Predestination, therefore, as it regards the thing itself, is the decree of the good pleasure of God in Christ, by which he resolved within himself from all eternity, to justify, adopt and endow with everlasting life, to the praise of his own glorious grace, believers on whom he had decreed to bestow faith. (Ephes. 1; Rom. 9.)

III. The genus of predestination we lay down as a decree which is called in Scripture Proqesiv "the purpose of God," (Rom. ix. 11,) and Boulhn tou qelhmatov Qeou "the counsel of God’s own will." (Ephes. i. 11.) And this decree is not legal, according to what is said, "The man who doeth those things shall live by them;" (Rom. x. 5;) but it is evangelical, and this is the language which it holds: "This is the will of God, that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life." (John vi. 40; Rom. x. 9.) This decree, therefore, is peremptory and irrevocable; because the final manifestation of "the whole counsel of God" concerning our salvation, is contained in the gospel. (Acts xx. 27; Heb. i. 2; ii, 2, 3.)

IV. The Cause of this decree is God, "according to the good pleasure" or the benevolent affection "of his own will." (Ephes. i. 5.) And God indeed is the cause, as possessing the right of determining as he wills both about men as his creatures, and especially as sinners, and about his blessings, (Jer. xviii. 6; Matt. xx. 14, 15,) "according to the good pleasure of his own will," by which, being moved with and in himself, he made that decree. This "good pleasure" not only excludes every cause which it could take from man, or which it could be imagined to take from him; but it likewise removes whatever was in or from man, that could justly move God not to make that gracious decree. (Rom. xi. 34, 35.)

V. As the foundation of this decree, we place Jesus Christ, the mediator between God and men, (Ephes. i. 4.) "in whom the Father is well pleased;" (Matt. iii. 17; Luke iii. 22;) "in whom God reconciled the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them" and "whom God made to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor. v. 19, 21.) Through Him "everlasting righteousness was to be brought in," (Dan. ix. 24,) adoption to be acquired, the spirit of grace and of faith was to be obtained, (Gal. iv. 5, 19, 6,) eternal life procured, (John vi. 51,) and all the plenitude of spiritual blessings prepared, the communication of which must be decreed by predestination. He is also constituted by God the Head of all those persons who will, by divine predestination, accept of the equal enjoyment of these blessings. (Ephes. i. 22; v, 23; Heb. v. 9.)
 

civic

Well-known member
VI. We attribute Eternity to this decree; because God does nothing in time, which He has not decreed to do from all eternity. For "known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world:" (Acts xv. 18) and "He hath chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world." (Ephes. i. 4.) If it were otherwise, God might be charged with mutability.

VII. We say that the object or matter of predestination is two-fold—Divine things, and Persons to whom the communication of those Divine things has been predestinated by this decree. (1.) These Divine Things receive from the Apostle the general appellation of "spiritual blessings:" (Ephes. i. 3.) Such are, in the present life, justification, adoption as sons, (Rom. viii. 29, 30,) and the spirit of grace and adoption. (Ephes. i. 5; John i. 12; Gal. iv. 6, 7.) Lastly, after this life, eternal life. (John iii. 15, 16.) The whole of these things are usually comprised and enunciated, in the Divinity schools, by the names of Grace and Glory. (2.) We circumscribe the Persons within the limits of the word "believers," which presupposes sin: for no one believes on Christ except a sinner, and the man who acknowledges himself to be that sinner. (Matt. ix. 13; xi, 28.) Therefore, the plenitude of those blessings, and the preparation of them which has been made in Christ, were necessary for none but sinners. But we give the name of "believers," not to those who would be such by their own merits or strength, but to those who by the gratuitous and peculiar kindness of God would believe in Christ. (Rom. ix. 32; Gal. ii. 20; Matt. xi. 25; xiii, 11; John vi. 44; Phil. i. 29.)

VIII. The form is the decreed communication itself of these blessings to believers, and in the mind of God the pre-existent and pre-ordained relation and ordination of believers to Christ their Head: the fruit of which they receive through a real and actual union with Christ their Head. In the present life, this fruit is gracious, through the commencement and increase of the union; and in the life to come, it is glorious, through the complete consummation of this union. (2 Tim. i. 9, 10; John i. 16, 17; xvii, 11, 12, 22-24; Ephes. iv. 13, 15.)

IX. The end of predestination is the praise of the glorious grace of God: for since grace, or the gratuitous love of God in Christ, is the cause of predestination, it is equitable that to the same grace the entire glory of this act should be ceded. (Ephes. i. 6; Rom. xi. 36.)

X. But this decree of predestination is "according to election," as the Apostle says: (Rom. ix. 6, xi, ) This election necessarily infers reprobation. Reprobation therefore is opposed to predestination, as its contrary; and is likewise called "a casting away," (Rom. ix. 1,) "an ordination to condemnation," (Jude 4,) and "an appointment unto wrath." (1 Thess. v. 9.)

XI. From the law of contraries, we define reprobation to be a decree of the wrath, or of the severe will, of God; by which he resolved from all eternity to condemn to eternal death unbelievers, who, by their own fault and the just judgment of God, would not believe, for the declaration of his wrath and power. (John iii. 18; Luke vii. 30; John xii. 37 40; 2 Thess. ii. 10, 11; Rom. ix. 22.)

XII. Though by faith in Jesus Christ the remission of all sins is obtained, and sins are not imputed to them who believe; (Rom. iv. 2-11;) yet the reprobate will be compelled to endure the punishment, not only of their unbelief, (by the contrary of which they might avoid the chastisement due to the rest of their sins,) but likewise of the sins which they have committed against the law, being "everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." (John viii. 24; ix, 41; 2 Thess. i. 9.)

XIII. To each of these decrees, that of predestination and that of reprobation, is subjoined its execution; the acts of which are performed in that order in which they have been appointed in and by the decree itself; and the objects both of the decree and of its execution are the same, and entirely uniform, or invested with the same formal relation. (Psalm cxv. 3; xxxiii, 9, 11.)

XIV. Great is the use of this doctrine, as thus delivered from the Scriptures. For it serves to establish the glory of the grace of God, to console afflicted consciences, to terrify the wicked and to drive away their security. (1.) But it establishes the grace of God, when it ascribes the whole praise of our vocation, justification, adoption, and glorification, to the mercy of God alone, and takes it entirely away from our own strength, works and merits. (Rom. viii. 29, 30; Ephes. 1.) (2.) It comforts afflicted consciences that are struggling with temptation, when it renders them assured of the gracious good will of God in Christ, which was from all eternity decreed to them, performed in time, and which will endure forever. (Isa. liv. 8.) It also shews, that the purpose of God according to election stands firm, not of works, but of Him that calleth. (1 Cor. i. 9; Rom. ix. 11.) (3.) It is capable of terrifying the ungodly; because it teaches, that the decree of God concerning unbelievers is irrevocable; (Heb. iii. 11, 17- 19;) and that "they who do not obey the truth, but believe a lie," are to be adjudged to eternal destruction. (2 Thess. ii. 12.)

XV. This doctrine therefore ought to resound, not only within private walls and in schools, but also in the assemblies of the saints and in the church of God. Yet one caution ought to be strictly observed, that nothing be taught concerning it beyond what the Scriptures say, that it be propounded in the manner which the Scriptures have adopted, and that it be referred to the same end as that which the Scriptures propose when they deliver it. This, by the gracious assistance of God, we think, we have done. "Unto Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen!"

"The power of God is great, but it obtains glory from the humble. Do not inconsiderately seek out the things that are too hard for thee; neither foolishly search for things which surpass thy powers. But meditate with reverence upon those things which God has commanded thee: for it is not requisite for thee to see with thine eyes those things which are secret. Do not curiously handle those matters which are unprofitable and unnecessary to thy discourse: for more things are shewn unto thee, than the human understanding can comprehend. Ecclesiasticus iii. 20-23. https://ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works1/works1.v.xvi.html
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
"The power of God is great, but it obtains glory from the humble. Do not inconsiderately seek out the things that are too hard for thee; neither foolishly search for things which surpass thy powers. But meditate with reverence upon those things which God has commanded thee: for it is not requisite for thee to see with thine eyes those things which are secret. Do not curiously handle those matters which are unprofitable and unnecessary to thy discourse: for more things are shewn unto thee, than the human understanding can comprehend. Ecclesiasticus iii. 20-23. https://ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works1/works1.v.xvi.html
I like the above quote and had to do a little studying on it.

Keep this in mind when reading the following apocryphal books. Martin Luther said, "Apocrypha--that is, books which are not regarded as equal to the holy Scriptures, and yet are profitable and good to read." (King James Version Defended page 98.)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
1
D. N. Jackson wrote a book entitled ‘The Doctrine of Divine Election, Calvinism
and Arminianism Examined.’ In this book you will find this statement: ’ God has
predestinated that believers shall be saved ...’ Is that a true statement? If we will
compare it to the word of God the answer is no, it is not a true statement.
To the point, the Bible nowhere says that God predestinates believers. Now this
might sound a little strange to the ears at first because we know that believers
are predestinated or else they would never have believed. But the statement is
confusing and misleading. What folks usually mean when they make a statement
like this is that God predestinates some because they have believed, and that is
not true. As a matter of fact it’s a lie and here’s why. That statement takes a
result or an effect of predestination and turns it into a cause for predestination.
Why the very same thing is done by those who say that God foreknew or foresaw
who would believe. Well, of course He foreknew them that believed or else they
would not be of those that shall believe. Again, what folks usually mean by saying
something to this effect is that God foreknew them that believed because God
saw they would believe. However, the Bible says nothing concerning faith as the
moving cause of God’s act to foreknow someone to salvation. The truth is that
the foreknowledge of God is not based on whether one shall have faith in Christ.
This kind of reasoning presents the absurd mental image of a tail chasing the dog
rather than what we are all familiar with, which is the dog chasing his tail. It is
this kind of reasoning that is applied to some very important Bible doctrines. We
need to pay close attention to what the Bible teaches or else we could be turned
away from its truths and into great errors by what appears to be to us only
seemingly small, insignificant details. So, what does the Bible teach about
predestination?
The Bible says that God predestinated those which he foreknew. Read it for
yourselves in Ro 8:29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be
conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brethren. First, I’d like to point out that the objective case pronoun ‘whom’ refers
to someone, not something. God foreknew someone. In other words God cast His
special forethought upon a certain person. And, second, notice here that
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
1
D. N. Jackson wrote a book entitled ‘The Doctrine of Divine Election, Calvinism
and Arminianism Examined.’ In this book you will find this statement: ’ God has
predestinated that believers shall be saved ...’ Is that a true statement? If we will
compare it to the word of God the answer is no, it is not a true statement.
To the point, the Bible nowhere says that God predestinates believers. Now this
might sound a little strange to the ears at first because we know that believers
are predestinated or else they would never have believed. But the statement is
confusing and misleading. What folks usually mean when they make a statement
like this is that God predestinates some because they have believed, and that is
not true. As a matter of fact it’s a lie and here’s why. That statement takes a
result or an effect of predestination and turns it into a cause for predestination.
Why the very same thing is done by those who say that God foreknew or foresaw
who would believe. Well, of course He foreknew them that believed or else they
would not be of those that shall believe. Again, what folks usually mean by saying
something to this effect is that God foreknew them that believed because God
saw they would believe. However, the Bible says nothing concerning faith as the
moving cause of God’s act to foreknow someone to salvation. The truth is that
the foreknowledge of God is not based on whether one shall have faith in Christ.
This kind of reasoning presents the absurd mental image of a tail chasing the dog
rather than what we are all familiar with, which is the dog chasing his tail. It is
this kind of reasoning that is applied to some very important Bible doctrines. We
need to pay close attention to what the Bible teaches or else we could be turned
away from its truths and into great errors by what appears to be to us only
seemingly small, insignificant details. So, what does the Bible teach about
predestination?
The Bible says that God predestinated those which he foreknew. Read it for
yourselves in Ro 8:29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be
conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brethren. First, I’d like to point out that the objective case pronoun ‘whom’ refers
to someone, not something. God foreknew someone. In other words God cast His
special forethought upon a certain person. And, second, notice here that
predestination is applied to those that God foreknew. Nothing here says that
predestination was because one was a believer or because of faith. Referring
once again to the Scriptures as our only source for both doctrine and practice, we
find predestination applied to those which God elects. In Eph.1.3-5 it is written:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us
in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without
blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise
of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Like
we read in Romans chapter 8 predestination is applied to those which God chose
(elected) before the foundation of the world. To be chosen by God before the
foundation of the world means that before there was anything of this present age
founded (this refers to the whole universe) God alone chose to save a people for
His name’s sake. So what have we gleaned from the word of God so far? We have
gleaned that God predestinated those upon whom he set His eternal thought and
upon whom He acted with an eternal act ... to save.
The foreknowledge of God and His election of grace have nothing to do with any
good or evil that the person known or chosen will do. NOTHING. Now, there’s no
question that God knew from eternity all the good and evil every person would
ever do throughout all of human history. But that knowledge is not
foreknowledge. It is omniscience. So the acts of men are excluded from the issue
of God’s foreknowledge of some to salvation. We just read in the Ephesian text
that God’s election of grace was that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love. Therefore election assumes holiness and blamelessness are lacking in
those elected unto salvation. Essentially the same idea is stated Ro.9.11: For the
children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth …
Election isn’t determined by the elected but by the Elector. This much we know
of those elected: there was no holiness and no righteous standing so that they
might live in the unmediated presence of God. Isn’t this the purpose of salvation?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
predestination is applied to those that God foreknew. Nothing here says that
predestination was because one was a believer or because of faith. Referring
once again to the Scriptures as our only source for both doctrine and practice, we
find predestination applied to those which God elects. In Eph.1.3-5 it is written:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us
in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without
blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise
of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Like
we read in Romans chapter 8 predestination is applied to those which God chose
(elected) before the foundation of the world. To be chosen by God before the
foundation of the world means that before there was anything of this present age
founded (this refers to the whole universe) God alone chose to save a people for
His name’s sake. So what have we gleaned from the word of God so far? We have
gleaned that God predestinated those upon whom he set His eternal thought and
upon whom He acted with an eternal act ... to save.
The foreknowledge of God and His election of grace have nothing to do with any
good or evil that the person known or chosen will do. NOTHING. Now, there’s no
question that God knew from eternity all the good and evil every person would
ever do throughout all of human history. But that knowledge is not
foreknowledge. It is omniscience. So the acts of men are excluded from the issue
of God’s foreknowledge of some to salvation. We just read in the Ephesian text
that God’s election of grace was that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love. Therefore election assumes holiness and blamelessness are lacking in
those elected unto salvation. Essentially the same idea is stated Ro.9.11: For the
children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth …
Election isn’t determined by the elected but by the Elector. This much we know
of those elected: there was no holiness and no righteous standing so that they
might live in the unmediated presence of God. Isn’t this the purpose of salvation?
You do realize verse 29 is tied to

Rom. 8:28 —KJV
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
predestination is applied to those that God foreknew. Nothing here says that
predestination was because one was a believer or because of faith. Referring
once again to the Scriptures as our only source for both doctrine and practice, we
find predestination applied to those which God elects. In Eph.1.3-5 it is written:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us
in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without
blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise
of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Like
we read in Romans chapter 8 predestination is applied to those which God chose
(elected) before the foundation of the world. To be chosen by God before the
foundation of the world means that before there was anything of this present age
founded (this refers to the whole universe) God alone chose to save a people for
His name’s sake. So what have we gleaned from the word of God so far? We have
gleaned that God predestinated those upon whom he set His eternal thought and
upon whom He acted with an eternal act ... to save.
The foreknowledge of God and His election of grace have nothing to do with any
good or evil that the person known or chosen will do. NOTHING. Now, there’s no
question that God knew from eternity all the good and evil every person would
ever do throughout all of human history. But that knowledge is not
foreknowledge. It is omniscience. So the acts of men are excluded from the issue
of God’s foreknowledge of some to salvation. We just read in the Ephesian text
that God’s election of grace was that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love. Therefore election assumes holiness and blamelessness are lacking in
those elected unto salvation. Essentially the same idea is stated Ro.9.11: For the
children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth …
Election isn’t determined by the elected but by the Elector. This much we know
of those elected: there was no holiness and no righteous standing so that they
might live in the unmediated presence of God. Isn’t this the purpose of salvation?

Just a suggestion to make your post easier for us to read break it down to paragraphs. One large body of text makes some of us shy away from attempting to read it. But being the sweet, warm wonderful person that I am I shall attempt it.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
predestination is applied to those that God foreknew. Nothing here says that
predestination was because one was a believer or because of faith. Referring
once again to the Scriptures as our only source for both doctrine and practice, we
find predestination applied to those which God elects. In Eph.1.3-5 it is written:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with
all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us
in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without
blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise
of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Like
we read in Romans chapter 8 predestination is applied to those which God chose
(elected) before the foundation of the world. To be chosen by God before the
foundation of the world means that before there was anything of this present age
founded (this refers to the whole universe) God alone chose to save a people for
His name’s sake. So what have we gleaned from the word of God so far? We have
gleaned that God predestinated those upon whom he set His eternal thought and
upon whom He acted with an eternal act ... to save.
The foreknowledge of God and His election of grace have nothing to do with any
good or evil that the person known or chosen will do. NOTHING. Now, there’s no
question that God knew from eternity all the good and evil every person would
ever do throughout all of human history. But that knowledge is not
foreknowledge. It is omniscience. So the acts of men are excluded from the issue
of God’s foreknowledge of some to salvation. We just read in the Ephesian text
that God’s election of grace was that we should be holy and without blame before
Him in love. Therefore election assumes holiness and blamelessness are lacking in
those elected unto salvation. Essentially the same idea is stated Ro.9.11: For the
children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth …
Election isn’t determined by the elected but by the Elector. This much we know
of those elected: there was no holiness and no righteous standing so that they
might live in the unmediated presence of God. Isn’t this the purpose of salvation?
Pt 3

... to bring a people into His unmediated presence by the redemptive work of the Son of God, Jesus Christ? (Jn.14.3; 17.24; Re.21.3) Now there are some things hard to understand in the word of God. For example, omniscience and foreknowledge are not the same things, yet so many of us treat them as if they are. Omniscience, like omnipresence, omnipotence, are attributes of God. These describe for us something of what God is like. Omni- from the Latin omnis, meaning all or universally. God is all-knowing, present in all places at one time, and all-powerful. However, foreknowledge and election refer to acts of God. I believe the statements, ‘God has predestinated that believers shall be saved,’ and, ‘God foreknew who they are that would believe,’ is a direct result of confusing God’s attribute of omniscience with His act that is called foreknowledge. That God comprehends all things at once, that He knows all things, that He knows from eternity the beginning from the end is true. (Is.46.10; Jn.16.30; 21.17) We do not deny that God is omniscient, but omniscience isn’t an act. In other words there is no intent in knowing. However, to foreknow is to act. God acts positively toward those he foreknows. This foreknowledge is when He sets His special thoughts upon someone. Therefore it can be said that omniscience differs from foreknowledge in that the act to foreknow is prompted absolutely by grace. Grace is the moving cause of foreknowledge. As a matter of fact grace is the moving cause of both foreknowledge and election. God by His grace set His mind specially upon one (foreknowledge) to choose him (election) in Jesus Christ to be saved. 1Pe 1:2, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (cf. Ro.11.5) G-R-A-C-E: the absolutely arbitrary, unmerited, loving favor of God bestowed upon those foreknown and elected. By now hopefully we can understand better that foreknowledge isn’t determined by the foreknown, but by the Foreknower; that, election isn’t determined by the elected, but by the Elector; and that, predestination isn’t determined by the predestinated, but by the Predestinator.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Just a suggestion to make your post easier for us to read break it down to paragraphs. One large body of text makes some of us shy away from attempting to read it. But being the sweet, warm wonderful person that I am I shall attempt it.
I understand. Its in 4 parts, so Im posting each part individually. BTW the Author of this study is person named Craig A Thurman http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/hi-71520121623-1.PDF

Im not affiliated with him, nor can I endorse everything he believes and teaches, but he is pretty sound in his soteriology from what I read so far.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You do realize verse 29 is tied to

Rom. 8:28 —KJV
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.”
Yes I realize it. Do you understand what the author is saying about foreknowledge ?
 

travelah

Active member
...Nothing here says that predestination was because one was a believer or because of faith...
That is the 'God's Lottery' theological version of predestination

Faith is the one constant among every soul predestined or as Paul put it... For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

What did God know in common about every single person in Christ?
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
I understand. Its in 4 parts, so Im posting each part individually. BTW the Author of this study is person named Craig A Thurman http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/hi-71520121623-1.PDF

Im not affiliated with him, nor can I endorse everything he believes and teaches, but he is pretty sound in his soteriology from what I read so far.
I tried looking up the book I finally found it on Amazon it's pretty much out-of-print.

The PDF file from the link you posted is a lot easier to read.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That is the 'God's Lottery' theological version of predestination

Faith is the one constant among every soul predestined or as Paul put it... For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

What did God know in common about every single person in Christ?
That they would be Unconditionally Elect?

Not being ugly, but if God Foreknew one (Faith) he also Foreknew the other (Election by Grace Alone)...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
That is the 'God's Lottery' theological version of predestination

Faith is the one constant among every soul predestined or as Paul put it... For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

What did God know in common about every single person in Christ?
Since you are a Classical Arminian, what do you think about the OP?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That is the 'God's Lottery' theological version of predestination

Faith is the one constant among every soul predestined or as Paul put it... For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

What did God know in common about every single person in Christ?

According to BDAG, when the object of the "foreknowing" is people, the meaning is "to choose in advance", especially when God is the one doing the "foreknowing". So it's not about God simply "looking down the corridors of time", to see what men do.

Further, faith is something GIVEN by God (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1).
And no one can believe unless God GIVES them faith.

So any way you slice it, salvation depends on God, not man.
 

travelah

Active member
That they would be Unconditionally Elect?

Not being ugly, but if God Foreknew one (Faith) he also Foreknew the other (Election by Grace Alone)...
What is the one commonality among 'Election by Grace Alone'? Scripturally, we have Faith i.e. those in Christ. Why force a theological construct with "Election by Grace Alone"? It seems that latter would present an arbitrary nature to God and it is unnecessary UNLESS it is needed for buttressing a systematic view that cannot stand without it.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
What is the one commonality among 'Election by Grace Alone'? Scripturally, we have Faith i.e. those in Christ. Why force a theological construct with "Election by Grace Alone"? It seems that latter would present an arbitrary nature to God and it is unnecessary UNLESS it is needed for buttressing a systematic view that cannot stand without it.
Sure, God Foreknew we have Faith, but that's not why we're Elect. There are more things God can foreknow if he can foreknow Faith, right? God Foreknew we are Elect according to Unconditional Favor; IE his Grace. I say God can't foreknow the one without knowing we're Saved by his prevening Efficacious Grace too, which always makes a real difference in our Salvation before our Will makes it's real difference in our Salvation...
 

travelah

Active member
Sure, God Foreknew we have Faith, but that's not why we're Elect. There are more things God can foreknow if he can foreknow Faith, right? God Foreknew we are Elect according to Unconditional Favor; IE his Grace. I say God can't foreknow the one without knowing we're Saved by his prevening Efficacious Grace, which always makes a real difference in our Salvation before our Will makes it's real difference in our Salvation...
How can you sit on this mortal coil and say faith is not why we are elect? The bible doesn't help you with such a proclamation and forces you to make a grand assumption that is not supportable. It is far safer to accept the truth that God foreknows every faithful soul in Christ and predestines each as the apostle says ... 'For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.'

As I said above, the only purpose in doing so is to add a philosophical element. You end up with a 'double predestination' that has God making an arbitrary selection of souls, one for eternal glory, the other for eternal damnation. Election is not as black and white as the Calvinist tries to make it because it basically lacks the black and white text of scripture to support it.

I have to do some work now but here are a few words from Arminius on the matter. His answers were presented to the University of Leyden, the result of which was an affirmation of his Reformed Christian credentials.

1. Which is first, Election, or Faith Truly Foreseen, so that God elected his people according to faith foreseen?

1. Is the decree "for bestowing Faith on any one," previous to that by which is appointed "the Necessity of Faith to salvation?"

ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION

The equivocation in the word "Election," makes it impossible to answer this question in any other manner, than by distinction. If therefore "Election" denotes "the decree which is according to election concerning the justification and salvation of believers." I say Election is prior to Faith, as being that by which Faith is appointed as the means of obtaining salvation. But if it signifies "the decree by which God determines to bestow salvation on some one," then Faith foreseen is prior to Election. For as believers alone are saved, so only believers are predestinated to salvation. But the Scriptures know no Election, by which God precisely and absolutely has determined to save anyone without having first considered him as a believer. For such an Election would be at variance with the decree by which he hath determined to save none but believers.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
How can you sit on this mortal coil and say faith is not why we are elect? The bible doesn't help you with such a proclamation and forces you to make a grand assumption that is not supportable. It is far safer to accept the truth that God foreknows every faithful soul in Christ and predestines each as the apostle says ... 'For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.'

As I said above, the only purpose in doing so is to add a philosophical element. You end up with a 'double predestination' that has God making an arbitrary selection of souls, one for eternal glory, the other for eternal damnation. Election is not as black and white as the Calvinist tries to make it because it basically lacks the black and white text of scripture to support it.

I have to do some work now but here are a few words from Arminius on the matter. His answers were presented to the University of Leyden, the result of which was an affirmation of his Reformed Christian credentials.

1. Which is first, Election, or Faith Truly Foreseen, so that God elected his people according to faith foreseen?

1. Is the decree "for bestowing Faith on any one," previous to that by which is appointed "the Necessity of Faith to salvation?"

ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION

The equivocation in the word "Election," makes it impossible to answer this question in any other manner, than by distinction. If therefore "Election" denotes "the decree which is according to election concerning the justification and salvation of believers." I say Election is prior to Faith, as being that by which Faith is appointed as the means of obtaining salvation. But if it signifies "the decree by which God determines to bestow salvation on some one," then Faith foreseen is prior to Election. For as believers alone are saved, so only believers are predestinated to salvation. But the Scriptures know no Election, by which God precisely and absolutely has determined to save anyone without having first considered him as a believer. For such an Election would be at variance with the decree by which he hath determined to save none but believers.
I'll get back to you on this. For now here's my Gospel Tract on it. If you don't like it, maybe the new-member Calvinists will like it...

Unmerited Election ~ by ReverendRV

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
; For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Compared to many Christians I know, I consider myself a ‘mini-Theoligian'; an ABC and 123 kind of guy. In a way, this can be advantageous; I can say something which is as true as a deep Theologian but say it in a way that’s easier to understand. There’s a Doctrine called Unconditional Election, one of the 5-Points of Calvinism; it means that God chooses you to be Saved before you choose him as your God. I said to a friend that every Evangelical believes in Unconditional Election and I could prove it. Our verse says we are Saved by Grace, which means ‘Unmerited Favor’; there is no condition we can ever meet to earn the Favor of God. God chooses people before they’ve done anything Good to deserve it or before they have done anything bad not to deserve it, that his purpose in Election will stand. I suggested to my friend that we change the name of Unconditional Election to Unmerited Election, and he said this would mean we are Saved by Grace. I said, “Now you’re getting it!” How can we be Saved any other way but by Grace?

Let me explain the problem. ~ Have you ever used the name of God as a cuss word? We take his Name in Vain and this is Blasphemy; what if someone went around running your name through the mud? Have you kept the Sabbath Day Holy? What if you invited someone to your Wedding but they decided to work in the yard instead; how would you feel? What if the person decided to choose your Fiancee for you before they would come? Shouldn’t YOUR purpose in your Engagement stand? These are just three of the Ten Commandments, not even counting Lying and Stealing; if God judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Shouldn’t he choose anyone else but you to live happily ever after with him? Does this bother you? Then you should check to see if you’ve been invited…

This is what God’s invitation looks like. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he was the Sinless sacrifice which appeases the Wrath of God against Sinners. He was hung on a Cross and shed his blood for the remission of Sins that he never committed; the Just dying for the Unjust. He arose from the grave and became the Author of Life for everyone who would dare to believe. We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, apart from Works; that’s the only way it could be true that it’s not of ourselves. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as Lord and start reading your Bible. ~ Unconditional Election doesn’t mean you can’t be Saved but teaches that God chooses us first, then we choose him. Since God is allowed to choose his people like we are allowed to choose our own spouse, God can choose you even if you think you’re unlovable. God’s Love is special…

John 15:19 KJV; If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Yes I realize it. Do you understand what the author is saying about foreknowledge ?
Yep but I am fairly certain you don't

compare to Romans 11:2

Rom. 11:2–5 —KJV
“God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”

Same author

same book

same word

same phrase
 
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