Arminius on Predestination

brightfame52

Well-known member
That should get you a lot of Attention here :)

Do you really believe that, or are you saying Calvinists believe that?
Judas wasnt one of the Elect, but he was chosen to the office of a apostle. Acts 2:16-20

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

And Jn 6:70-71

. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Judas wasnt one of the Elect foreknown of God in the matter of the Salvation of His people.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Judas wasnt one of the Elect, but he was chosen to the office of a apostle. Acts 2:16-20



And Jn 6:70-71

. 70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Judas wasnt one of the Elect foreknown of God in the matter of the Salvation of His people.
Were the Disciples Apostles before Pentecost?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Romans 9 some are vessels of glory and others vessels of destruction
I'll be doing some study on this. Being Elected to the Office of Apostle is to be a part of the early Church of Israel...

Right?
 
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TomFL

Guest
I'll be doing some study on this. Being Elected to the Office of Apostle is to be a part of the early Church of Israel...

Right?
I thought about this while rowing

John 6:70 (KJV 1900)
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

chosen here is

eklegomai

Choose, select, elect …

Judas was elect
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I thought about this while rowing

John 6:70 (KJV 1900)
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

chosen here is

eklegomai

Choose, select, elect …

Judas was elect
It seems so, doesn't it?

But Judas wasn't Unconditionally Elect as Peter was. The two are often shown to be traitorous, but only one was able to Repent. Peter Repented of disowning Jesus but Judas was unable to Repent. The confounding thing is that Peter was forgiven for violating Hebrews 6:4; and Judas tried to Repent at the Jewish Temple but was unforgiven...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Peter's three denials ~ by ReverendRV

Matthew 26:34 NIV; “Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”

Have you ever been a Christian but left the Faith? One survey I read says that 70 percent of college students leave Christianity; that’s a staggering number. Most choose their ‘newfound’ learning over their old Sunday school lessons. I have found that because of many ‘oldfound’ teachings of Theology, they do not need to disown Jesus because of new teachings; but that’s a Gospel Tract for another day. This Gospel Tract is about Saint Peter’s three denials of his Lord. Before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that they would be scattered because of him; Peter denied this and said he would never forsake him. Jesus was soon arrested, tried, found guilty, and crucified. Peter watched the trial from within the crowd but was soon recognized as a follower of Christ. Out of fright, Peter disowned Jesus three times; denouncing that he knew him. At his third denial, the rooster crowed and Jesus looked Peter in the eyes; then Peter left, weeping bitterly…

Earlier in Christ’s ministry, Peter confessed that Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus replied by saying that this knowledge came from God. In the book of John, Jesus says “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my words and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” This is an amazing promise in the light of what happened to Peter; because he denied Jesus three times! In the Bible, the number three represents completion. This can be seen elsewhere when the Angels of Heaven declare that God is Holy, Holy, Holy; the fullest expression of Holiness. Peter disowned Jesus three times; there was no need for a fourth denial. If anyone could have lost his Salvation it should have been Peter. You ask, “But doesn’t the Bible say that if you deny Jesus, then you cannot be saved again?” The answer is yes; but do you know whether you are a Judas or a Peter? The Bible tells us that Peter went on to be one of the three leading pillars of the early Church. From the beginning of their relationship, Peter was Justified by Faith in Jesus and you cannot become unjustified; Peter is the ideal example when it comes to this…

After Jesus rose from the grave, he asked Peter three questions, the same question three times; “Peter, do you love me?” Peter answered yes all three times; another example of completion. While you still live, you can return to Jesus as Peter did and enjoy the completeness of your Justification. Perhaps you were not a Christian because you misunderstood the Gospel? We have Sinned against God by lying, stealing, committing adultery, etc. Our Sin causes death; an eternal death in a fiery Hell. But the Godman Jesus Christ lived a Holy, Holy, Holy life obtaining a perfect record which he will trade to you for your Sinful, Sinful, Sinful life's record. Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood to Atone for Sin. This Atonement is applied by God’s Grace through Faith in Jesus as our risen Lord and Savior, apart from any Work we can perform to earn this gift. Be like Peter; and come home…

John 6:68 KJV; Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.”
 

travelah

Active member
Peter's three denials ~ by ReverendRV

Matthew 26:34 NIV; “Truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”

Have you ever been a Christian but left the Faith? One survey I read says that 70 percent of college students leave Christianity; that’s a staggering number. Most choose their ‘newfound’ learning over their old Sunday school lessons. I have found that because of many ‘oldfound’ teachings of Theology, they do not need to disown Jesus because of new teachings; but that’s a Gospel Tract for another day. This Gospel Tract is about Saint Peter’s three denials of his Lord. Before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that they would be scattered because of him; Peter denied this and said he would never forsake him. Jesus was soon arrested, tried, found guilty, and crucified. Peter watched the trial from within the crowd but was soon recognized as a follower of Christ. Out of fright, Peter disowned Jesus three times; denouncing that he knew him. At his third denial, the rooster crowed and Jesus looked Peter in the eyes; then Peter left, weeping bitterly…

Earlier in Christ’s ministry, Peter confessed that Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus replied by saying that this knowledge came from God. In the book of John, Jesus says “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my words and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.” This is an amazing promise in the light of what happened to Peter; because he denied Jesus three times! In the Bible, the number three represents completion. This can be seen elsewhere when the Angels of Heaven declare that God is Holy, Holy, Holy; the fullest expression of Holiness. Peter disowned Jesus three times; there was no need for a fourth denial. If anyone could have lost his Salvation it should have been Peter. You ask, “But doesn’t the Bible say that if you deny Jesus, then you cannot be saved again?” The answer is yes; but do you know whether you are a Judas or a Peter? The Bible tells us that Peter went on to be one of the three leading pillars of the early Church. From the beginning of their relationship, Peter was Justified by Faith in Jesus and you cannot become unjustified; Peter is the ideal example when it comes to this…

After Jesus rose from the grave, he asked Peter three questions, the same question three times; “Peter, do you love me?” Peter answered yes all three times; another example of completion. While you still live, you can return to Jesus as Peter did and enjoy the completeness of your Justification. Perhaps you were not a Christian because you misunderstood the Gospel? We have Sinned against God by lying, stealing, committing adultery, etc. Our Sin causes death; an eternal death in a fiery Hell. But the Godman Jesus Christ lived a Holy, Holy, Holy life obtaining a perfect record which he will trade to you for your Sinful, Sinful, Sinful life's record. Jesus died on the cross and shed his blood to Atone for Sin. This Atonement is applied by God’s Grace through Faith in Jesus as our risen Lord and Savior, apart from any Work we can perform to earn this gift. Be like Peter; and come home…

John 6:68 KJV; Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.”
I don't think there is a 3 strikes rule on repentance.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I don't think there is a 3 strikes rule on repentance.
Good point, but three is the number of completion; he completely disowned Jesus. Saint Peter is the Poster Boy for Unconditional Election. Judas is Reprobation's Poster Boy...
 
T

TomFL

Guest
It seems so, doesn't it?

But Judas wasn't Unconditionally Elect as Peter was. The two are often shown to be traitorous, but only one was able to Repent. Peter Repented of disowning Jesus but Judas was unable to Repent. The confounding thing is that Peter was forgiven for violating Hebrews 6:4; and Judas tried to Repent at the Jewish Temple but was unforgiven...
Matthew 27:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Matthew 27:3–4 (KJV 1900)
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
He only tried to Repent. It wasn't accepted by any Priest...
 

travelah

Active member
Good point, but three is the number of completion; he completely disowned Jesus. Saint Peter is the Poster Boy for Unconditional Election. Judas is Reprobation's Poster Boy...
If Jesus had said 7 times, I'm guessing Peter would have denied him 7 times before he realized what he was doing. We'll never know.
 
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