AS a Christian can you ever vote DEMOCRATIC

Newbirth

Well-known member
However, they stated many times that religion, specifically, Christianity, is vital to our liberty and our prosperity.
If religion is vital to the liberty and prosperity of Christians then religion would be also vital to non-Christians and other religious groups' liberty and prosperity.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The Declaration of Independence says we did not give ourselves that right, but that it is a natural right, endowed to us by God, an is unalienable.

If it can be taken away, then it is not a right, but a privilege.
The declaration of Independence was written by men, therefore men gave man that right. A gun is not a natural thing it is man-made therefore owning a gun is not natural. Where does God say that having a gun is unalienable? Unless you are claiming that the founding fathers are God your statement is rubbish.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
Your claims make it clear... if gun rights are inherent to all men then it cannot be illegal to sell guns to criminals anywhere in the world.
Unsupported straw man - I never claimed this.
If gun rights are only applicable to America then it is only a privilege afforded to Americans and not a human right as you want to make it out to be.
Your evidence is?
Everything, if men were born with guns then one could argue that it is their inherent right.
See above.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
That's not my claim at all. I do think that Jesus wouldn't carry a gun.
I don't think He would, either.

However, in Christianity, we get our doctrine from what the text says, not what some atheist troll on the internet things Jesus would do.
Right. He wasn't concerned about those things. He took no political stances at all. It wasn't His agenda.
He clearly was concerned about them, or else He wouldn't have taught about them and given us instructions about them.
I did say IMO. I don't think that passage can be used to justify self defense with guns.
Good thing it isn't up to you, then.
"People" wrote the Declaration of Independence so it is a man made document also. We made it and we can change it. We gave ourselves the right to own guns. We can double up on it or eliminate it.
No. If God gives rights, only God can take rights away. Man cannot take our rights away.

By your logic. Hitler was perfectly justified because the Jews had no rights after he took them away.

Nevertheless, the Constitution as it stands is the law of the land. That means that, as of this time, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
"We" gave ourselves the rights in the constitution.
Where? Go ahead and quote where the Constitution gives us our rights.
He did create his own bible
No, he didn't. He did view either of the collections as a Bible, but as collections of philosophy and morals

and he removed all the supernatural stuff.
You're lying. I cited several examples of miracles in Jefferson's collections.
Not delving it out for public doesn't make it not his bible. It was "his" bible that he believed in.
And yet, at no time did he ever claim it was a Bible.
Yes he did. He threw the miracles out. See the link below.

Why Thomas Jefferson Rewrote the Bible Without Jesus' Miracles and Resurrection - HISTORY

See my comment above and the provided link.


The link only says it does not include His resurrection, His ascension, walking on water, or turning water into wine. And why would it? As I explained to you, the point of the book was not to give establish Christ's deity, but to teach His philosophy. But it still does include those miracles I cited in my previous post.

Likewise, the article confirms many of the things I told you, such as it not being a Bible, but being a book of Jesus' moral lessons. It also says that the book is NOW know as "Jefferson's Bible". As I explained to you before, it was never intended to be or considered a Bible in Jefferson's time, merely a book of moral lessons. It says he excised those portions he felt unnecessary. That's "unnecessary", not untrue. It says he didn't intend the book to be read by others. This is mostly true. He didn't intend it for publication, but he did intend it to be read by his nephew. So, most of your own link refutes what you've said and confirms most of what I told you.

I think that's what you kids call a "self pawn".
Not sure what you are talking about. I'll go back and re-read my post.
You asked me if I'd ever read what Jefferson wrote about the Bible, implying that he denigrated the Bible in some way that would prove your point.

You still haven't been man enough to show evidence.

I gave you several examples of Jefferson's views on the Bible, complete with citations.
They did think this.
Then you should have no problem showing examples and their citations.
We are a nation with Christians in it. We are not a Christian nation.
The Founders disagree with you. Chief Justice Brewer of the SCOTUS disagrees with you.
If we were a Christian our government would be a Theocracy in the same way the nation of Israel was in the OT.
I get that you like being ignorant, but try reading the SCOTUS decision in the "Trinity" case. It lays out a solid argument about why, although we are not a theocracy, the Christian influences on our republic do make us a Christian nation.
The constitution allows freedom of religion. This means individuals in the US can worship whatever God (Christ, Apollo, Zeus, Thor, Allah, Odin, etc) they want to. Christians tend to forget this
How have Christians forgotten this? We appear to be the only ones fighting the Democrats and the Godless Left to save the Constitution.
They wanted govt out of people's private lives as much as possible.
Good. Then we're agreed that Democrats are inconsistent with the founding principles of our republic.
Some did state this and some didn't.
The difference is that the ones who didn't never said it should be kept out of the public square, which is what you're arguing.

You are profoundly ignorant of our history.
 
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Mike McK

Well-known member
If religion is vital to the liberty and prosperity of Christians then religion would be also vital to non-Christians and other religious groups' liberty and prosperity.
They were referring to all Americans, not just Americans of a particular religion.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
you just proved your lack of understanding
You just proved your dishonesty.
The evidence is, American gun laws are only applicable in America...
Straw man - no one said any different.
That is not a valid response...
Prove it.
American gun laws do not apply to all people in the world.
Straw man - no one said any different.
This is proof that it is not an inalienable right.
Your evidence is?
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
That is not a valid response...American gun laws do not apply to all people in the world. This is proof that it is not an inalienable right.
That doesn't mean it's not an unalienable right. It just means that some countries do not recognize that right.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You just proved your dishonesty.
show how...
Straw man - no one said any different.
Which is proof that it is not an inalienable right. You lose that right when you go where that law does not apply.
Prove it.
I just did.
Straw man - no one said any different.
They cannot say otherwise. But you are trying to make the claim that Americans are born with the right to keep and bear arms. If they were then it would apply to them worldwide.
Your evidence is?
American gun rights do not apply worldwide. Therefore it is not an inalienable right.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You just proved your dishonesty.
show how...
Straw man - no one said any different.
Which is proof that it is not an inalienable right. You lose that right when you go where that law does not apply.
Prove it.
I just did.
Straw man - no one said any different.
They cannot say otherwise. But you are trying to make the claim that Americans are born with the right to keep and bear arms. If they were then it would apply to them worldwide.
Your evidence is?
American gun rights do not apply worldwide. Therefore it is not an inalienable right.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
And if you weren't such a lying retard you would be able to follow the conversation and see that I said only that their writings say Christianity was vital to liberty, not merely the liberty of Christians, as you claimed I said.
lol, these are your words...
Mike McK said:
However, they stated many times that religion, specifically, Christianity, is vital to our liberty and our prosperity.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
show how...
Prove your claims first.,
Which is proof that it is not an inalienable right. You lose that right when you go where that law does not apply.
Your evidence is?
I just did.
Your unsupported assertions are not proof.
They cannot say otherwise.
Prove it.
But you are trying to make the claim that Americans are born with the right to keep and bear arms.
So what?
If they were then it would apply to them worldwide.
That doesn't mean it's not an unalienable right. It just means that some countries do not recognize that right.
American gun rights do not apply worldwide. Therefore it is not an inalienable right.
That doesn't mean it's not an unalienable right. It just means that some countries do not recognize that right.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
lol, these are your words...
Mike McK said:
However, they stated many times that religion, specifically, Christianity, is vital to our liberty and our prosperity.
Yes, those are my words.

edit I said Christianity is vital to our liberty and our prosperity, not that Christianity is vital only to Christians' liberty and prosperity.
 
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Mike McK

Well-known member
That doesn't mean it's not an unalienable right. It just means that some countries do not recognize that right.
Now, jump down to post #299 and look what ferengi says:
ferengi said:
That doesn't mean it's not an unalienable right. It just means that some countries do not recognize that right.
And he says it twice.
 

Tweedle

Active member
Dont know what you are talking about - go be racist somewhere else.

(Insert eye roll here)

For your information, only white male land owners were allowed to vote at first. And even then, not all white male land owners, Jews couldn't vote. It wasn't until 1856 that all white males could vote regardless of their religion. They made it impossible for black males to vote when they finallly had the "right", and later women were allowed.

Google it, it is so humiliating to see how racist and sexist these white men were for so long.

The point being, people here are trying to split hairs between what is a right and what is a privilege and what is a freedom when they are simply man made rules by peeps who are in power. And all that stuff changes.

The immoral "christian" right believes they can force christianity onto people. All the while the Islamic population grows. And then they will want to force Sharia law over these same christians for the same justifications.
 

Tweedle

Active member
He clearly was concerned about them, or else He wouldn't have taught about them and given us instructions about them.

You have one messed up interpretation. What color is the sky in your world?
No. If God gives rights, only God can take rights away. Man cannot take our rights away.

By your logic. Hitler was perfectly justified because the Jews had no rights after he took them away.

Nevertheless, the Constitution as it stands is the law of the land. That means that, as of this time, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
What was the purpose of this? God gives rights? Like what exactly are you talking about? The constitution gives rights, but they change whenever men decide?

God tells us that chosing to have human leaders to rule over us is a rejection of God himself, but you are saying that God tells you how to vote for rejecting him? I'd like to see you back that up.

Someone tell me this guy is just messing with me.
Where? Go ahead and quote where the Constitution gives us our rights.

You can fact check this yourself and see very clearly that the constitution gives many rights.
 
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