AS a Christian can you ever vote DEMOCRATIC

[Tweedle]

Is your false witness mora? Who is this alleged Christian right?

Google "Immoral christian right". Almost 12 million hits in .58 seconds for your enjoyment.

 

[UncleAbee]

He clearly was concerned about them, or else He wouldn't have taught about them and given us instructions about them.

Jesus gave no instructions on politics. His only concern was seeking and saving the lost.

No. If God gives rights, only God can take rights away. Man cannot take our rights away.

We gave ourselves rights in the US Constitution. The only right God gives is for you to be a Christian, have peace with Him, and go to Heaven. God doesn't promise you a long life, happiness in this life, or that you will be free in this life.

By your logic. Hitler was perfectly justified because the Jews had no rights after he took them away.

That's not my logic and I said no such thing. Hitler was a monster who tried to commit genocide on the Jews. There is no justification for what he did.

Nevertheless, the Constitution as it stands is the law of the land. That means that, as of this time, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Agreed until we decide to change it. Guns are a right that we gave ourselves. God didn't give it to us.

Where? Go ahead and quote where the Constitution gives us our rights.

People wrote the constitution so every right in it comes from the mind of people.

No, he didn't. He did view either of the collections as a Bible, but as collections of philosophy and morals

You're lying. I cited several examples of miracles in Jefferson's collections.

And yet, at no time did he ever claim it was a Bible.

The link only says it does not include His resurrection, His ascension, walking on water, or turning water into wine. And why would it? As I explained to you, the point of the book was not to give establish Christ's deity, but to teach His philosophy. But it still does include those miracles I cited in my previous post.

Likewise, the article confirms many of the things I told you, such as it not being a Bible, but being a book of Jesus' moral lessons. It also says that the book is NOW know as "Jefferson's Bible". As I explained to you before, it was never intended to be or considered a Bible in Jefferson's time, merely a book of moral lessons. It says he excised those portions he felt unnecessary. That's "unnecessary", not untrue. It says he didn't intend the book to be read by others. This is mostly true. He didn't intend it for publication, but he did intend it to be read by his nephew. So, most of your own link refutes what you've said and confirms most of what I told you.

It's obvious you didn't read the article. Thomas Jefferson didn't believe any of the supernatural stuff in the bible was true. In the article it says "This Bible was focused only on Jesus, but none of his mystical works." It also says "Made for his private use and kept secret for decades, Jefferson’s 84-page Bible was the work of a man who spent much of his life grappling with, and doubting, religion." The bible was for his personal use and reflected his beliefs about Christ.

The Founders disagree with you. Chief Justice Brewer of the SCOTUS disagrees with you.

Many of the founders weren't Christians. They believed that individuals should be free to worship whatever they wanted to as they pleased. Religion to them was a private matter. If this nation was a Christian nation then it would be a theocracy with the bible as the law of the land. It is not. Freedom of religion to Christians of "your brand" means freedom of "Christian" religion. The founding fathers meant for people to worship whatever God (Christ, Allah, Odin, Zeus, etc) they pleased.

I get that you like being ignorant, but try reading the SCOTUS decision in the "Trinity" case. It lays out a solid argument about why, although we are not a theocracy, the Christian influences on our republic do make us a Christian nation.

Well you called me a liar and now you call me ignorant. You're a mean guy. The Trinity case was about the use of public funds to pay for vouchers to private religious schools. It had nothing to do with deciding if the USA was or wasn't a Christian nation.

How have Christians forgotten this? We appear to be the only ones fighting the Democrats and the Godless Left to save the Constitution.

Christians of "your brand" have forgotten this because Freedom of religion means Freedom of "Christian" religion to you all. Your attempt is to make Christianity a "favored" religion and all other religions are relegated to the back of the closet. An example is school sponsored prayer. You all want this as long as Christian prayers are being said. Let little Johnny come home and say "momma, today our teacher led us in Hindu prayers." You guys would be at the school ready to burn the place down.

Good. Then we're agreed that Democrats are inconsistent with the founding principles of our republic.

No, you are inconsistent with the founding principles.

The difference is that the ones who didn't never said it should be kept out of the public square, which is what you're arguing.

You are profoundly ignorant of our history.

There you go calling me ignorant again. You're one mean guy. Sheesh.

 

[UncleAbee]

The declaration of Independence was written by men, therefore men gave man that right. A gun is not a natural thing it is man-made therefore owning a gun is not natural. Where does God say that having a gun is unalienable? Unless you are claiming that the founding fathers are God your statement is rubbish.

Exactly!!!!! I bolded and underlined the most important part.

 

[ferengi]

Google "Immoral christian right". Almost 12 million hits in .58 seconds for your enjoyment.

IOW you cannot prove your claims - got it

 

[Tweedle]

IOW you cannot prove your claims - got it

Didn't know I was suppose to. If you could be clear on what claim you believe that I should defend, that would be helpful. Just quote it and tell me what is wrong with it.

 

[Mike McK]

Jesus gave no instructions on politics. His only concern was seeking and saving the lost.

Jesus said He came to call sinners to repentance (including you). That's true.

However, the Bible, all of which is the words of Jesus (2 Tim 3:16) has much to say about politics.

We gave ourselves rights in the US Constitution.

Then you should have no problem quoting exactly where the Constitution says we give ourselves rights.

The only right God gives is for you to be a Christian, have peace with Him, and go to Heaven.

Precisely the opposite of what the Bible says. The Bible says that we're sinners and rebels against God, whom God saved because of His mercy, not because we have some "right".

That's not my logic and I said no such thing. Hitler was a monster who tried to commit genocide on the Jews. There is no justification for what he did.

Why? According to you, Hitler took their rights away.

Agreed until we decide to change it. Guns are a right that we gave ourselves. God didn't give it to us.

That's not what the Founders and Framers believed, and not the context in which they wrote the 2nd Amendment.

It's obvious you didn't read the article.

It's obvious you weren't able to make out the big words in my post. I literally quoted the article.

Thomas Jefferson didn't believe any of the supernatural stuff in the bible was true. In the article it says "This Bible was focused only on Jesus, but none of his mystical works."

That doesn't mean he didn't believe in them. I've already provided examples of miracles he DID include, as well as explained to you that the reason he omitted many of the miracles is that the purpose of the book was not to be a a Bible, but a compilation of Christ's philosophcal teaching.

It also says "Made for his private use and kept secret for decades

Yeah, I know. I told you that in a previous post.

, Jefferson’s 84-page Bible was the work of a man who spent much of his life grappling with, and doubting, religion."

The bible was for his personal use and reflected his beliefs about Christ.

Actually, as shown by the quotes and citations I provided for you, he didn't spend "much of his life grappling with, and doubting religion".

Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were opposites: Franklin was a deist when he was young, and became a Christian when he was older. Jefferson was a Christian when he was younger, who adopted abberant beliefs as he got older.

Many of the founders weren't Christians.

Irrelevant and unfounded. The issue isn't whether or not they were Christians, but whether or not they were influenced, and their writings reflected, Christian philosophy.

Religion to them was a private matter.

And yet, they wrote repeatedly of the necessity of religion, the importance of religion in the public square, etc.

If this nation was a Christian nation then it would be a theocracy with the bible as the law of the land.

Had you bothered to read the SCOTUS decision in the Trinity case, you would have seen that Brewer explains in great detail how America is a Christian nation in the sense that it is founded on Christian philosophy and influenced and shaped by Christianity.

It is not. Freedom of religion to Christians of "your brand" means freedom of "Christian" religion.

Another lie. We believe freedom of religion means freedom to practice any religion or none at all.

Well you called me a liar

Yes, and you just lied again since the last time I pointed out that you lied.

and now you call me ignorant.

Yes.

You're a mean guy.

If you lie, you are, by definition, a liar. If you lack knowledge or understanding of something, you are, by definition, ignorant. There is nothing "mean" about pointing that out. Facts don't care about your feelings.

The Trinity case was about the use of public funds to pay for vouchers to private religious schools. It had nothing to do with deciding if the USA was or wasn't a Christian nation.

The issue isn't what the Trinity case was about, but the fact that Brewer makes a strong case in writing for the majority opinion that America is, indeed, a Christian nation. But you won't read it because you don't care about the truth.

Christians of "your brand" have forgotten this because Freedom of religion means Freedom of "Christian" religion to you all.

Actually, you're the ones who have been telling churches they can't meet and arresting pastors who open their churches, suing people for not wanting to violate their religious beliefs. We've always been consistent that the freedom of religion means all religions.

Your attempt is to make Christianity a "favored" religion and all other religions are relegated to the back of the closet.

Another lie.

An example is school sponsored prayer. You all want this as long as Christian prayers are being said.

Actually, most of us don't want this. We just children to be allowed to pray, not to have prayer forced on them.

Let little Johnny come home and say "momma, today our teacher led us in Hindu prayers." You guys would be at the school ready to burn the place down.

I think you're confusing us with Antifa and BLM, which is your side, not ours. You guys are in the burning things business (eg. buildings, crosses, etc), not us.

No, you are inconsistent with the founding principles.

Between the two of us, I'm the one who's actually quoted and cited the Founders. All you've done is deny.

There you go calling me ignorant again. You're one mean guy. Sheesh.

And you're still ignorant.

 

[Tweedle]

I know this thread is asking about whether a person can ever vote for democratic

Ezekiel 3:17



14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me. 15 Then I came to them of the captivity at Telabib, that dwelt by the river of Chebar, and I sat where they sat, and remained there astonished among them seven days. 16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.


https://catholicvote.org/phoenix-priest-speaks-hard-truths-on-catholic-voting-and-abortion/

And the answer is obvious, yes, republicans are going to hell. Democrats, possibly, but registared republicans are simply getting turned away at the pearly gates.

Rejecting God by wanting leaders over you is going to be bad enough, but the republicans willingly vote in such a vile immoral evil person like Trump is going to simply be unexcusable. A special hell for Republicans like the one for pedo's and people who text in movie theaters.

As to abortion. God gave you a mind so that you can decide whether you choose to have an abortion or not. It is by what we say and do that we will be judged to salvation or damnation. It is our job to create a world where the need to have an abortion would be done away with. It is not our place to tell God he is wrong and create laws and force our religious views onto people we know don't always share those views. And for people to mock God because of you. Google the list of republicans who have had their adulteress missresses have abortions all the while voting to force others not to have abortions. What a joke.

 

[Tweedle]

I think you're confusing us with Antifa and BLM, which is your side, not ours. You guys are in the burning things business (eg. buildings, crosses, etc), not us.

Wow! Which side has been doing the killings, inserections, commiting treason? If the Dems weren't playing the mercy card trying to "heal the nation" the rioters, along with Trump, would have been lined up and shot for treason. (And we all know, that if they were black, they would have been shot long before that.)

I am so sick of hearing them whine "I was only doing what my president told me."

 

[Tweedle]

The issue isn't what the Trinity case was about, but the fact that Brewer makes a strong case in writing for the majority opinion that America is, indeed, a Christian nation. But you won't read it because you don't care about the truth.

The Christians philosophy that exterminated the indigninous people to take their land, then import slaves from other countries and treat them worse than animals? How we dropped two atomic bombs on civilian citiies all the while knowing that the Japanese were trying to surrender. When is this Christian philosphy suppose to show up in the leadership of this country. How we forced opium upon the Chineese for decades so we could rape the silver out of her?

Brewer can say what he wants, he is a falible man with bias. Jesus tells us that you will know a tree by its fruit. There is a reason why most of the world hates us.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Some Democratic politicians want to expand it to babies already born like the Governor in Virginia Newsome

Which makes perfect "Human" sense. If you're going to MURDER a baby, it's not important whether it's inside, or Outside the mother. Murder is murder.

 

[Mike McK]

The Christians philosophy that exterminated the indigninous people to take their land

How is that a Christian philosophy? How is that consistent with Christ's command to love your neighbor?

then import slaves from other countries and treat them worse than animals?

Please show us the verses that show that's a "Christian philosophy".

How we dropped two atomic bombs on civilian citiies all the while knowing that the Japanese were trying to surrender.

So, you're mad because we saved tens of thousands of Japanese lives that would have been lost in a land invasion? I think the racism is strong in you.

When is this Christian philosphy suppose to show up in the leadership of this country.

Well, quit electing Godless Democrats and maybe we'll find out.

Brewer can say what he wants, he is a falible man with bias.

He's also much more knowlegable about the history and founding principles of our republic than you are.

But you haven't bothered to read it, so what you think of Brewer and his opinion are irrelevant.

Jesus tells us that you will know a tree by its fruit. There is a reason why most of the world hates us.

Yeah, because we stick our nose in places where it doesn't belong. Thank Truman, a Democrat, for that.

Wow! Which side has been doing the killings, inserections, commiting treason?

Democrats have burned cities, lynched blacks, imprisoned Japanese Americans, disregarded the Constitution, stolen elections, etc.

If the Dems weren't playing the mercy card trying to "heal the nation" the rioters, along with Trump, would have been lined up and shot for treason.

Well, I guess we don't have to ask whether you're Tweedledum or Tweedledee now.

 

[HillsboroMom]

I agree with the majority of what you said. Christians do have the right to influence the way moral standards are applied by law. What we don't have the right is apply secular law strictly based on what God says in the bible. We can't force our beliefs on society as a whole because everyone is not Christian (Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, non-believers, etc). One of our rights is freedom of religion. If Muslims were attempting the same thing we'd be all up in arms. US law has to be neutral. The intent of the law is to reduce injury and promote well being among humans.

Can't love this enough!

 

[HillsboroMom]

I honestly don't understand why so many people seem to think the US constitution, and the rights therein, are "god-given." If they were god-given, then every country would have them. Or do people think that their god only loves Americans? Honestly, I don't know where some people get their brains.

 

[Mike McK]

The writer of the Declaration, Jefferson, a slave owner who fathered children by his slaves.

There's no evidence to suggest he fathered children by his slaves. Even the guy who popularized that claim has since recanted.

Not sure what he means by "creator", but I am sure you think he means just what you want him to.

Words don't care what you think they mean, or if you're too stupid to understand them.

Maybe it is the stellar way you have explained the difference that is the issue?

Kind of sad that you would need me to explain something to you that you should have learned in grammar school.

 

[Mike McK]

I honestly don't understand why so many people seem to think the US constitution, and the rights therein, are "god-given." If they were god-given, then every country would have them. Or do people think that their god only loves Americans? Honestly, I don't know where some people get their brains.

Ah, another Leftist who's too stupid to understand the difference between rights and freedoms.

All men do have these rights. It's why the Declaration of Independence says "All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights".

 

[Tweedle]

Ah, another Leftist who's too stupid to understand the difference between rights and freedoms.

All men do have these rights. It's why the Declaration of Independence says "All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights".

OMG You mean those slavers?

The writer of the Declaration, Jefferson, a slave owner who fathered children by his slaves. Not sure what he means by "creator", but I am sure you think he means just what you want him to.

Ah, another Leftist who's too stupid to understand the difference between rights and freedoms.

Maybe it is the stellar way you have explained the difference that is the issue?

 

[ferengi]

Didn't know I was suppose to.

You dont know what intellectual honesty is?

If you could be clear on what claim you believe that I should defend, that would be helpful. Just quote it and tell me what is wrong with it.

Your claims - what else? Shifting the burden.

 

[Tweedle]

Your claims - what else? Shifting the burden.

Sooooo, you have nothing but complaining and no substance to back it up? Eiither tell me what claim you believe I need to back up or I wll simply ignore your badgering.

You dont know what intellectual honesty is?

Well, you have demonstrated what it isn't, so ya, I think I have a grip on it. Cya.

 

[ferengi]

Sooooo, you have nothing but complaining and no substance to back it up?

Loaded question and projeciton.

Either tell me what claim you believe I need to back up or I wll simply ignore your badgering.

LOL - you feel your threats are supposed to mean something? LOL I cant care less what you do.

Well, you have demonstrated what it isn't, so ya, I think I have a grip on it. Cya.

So no you dont know what intellectual honesty is.

 

[Tweedle]

There's no evidence to suggest he fathered children by his slaves. Even the guy who popularized that claim has since recanted.

Not true, seriously, what world do you live in? Some alternate reality?

Please show us the verses that show that's a "Christian philosophy".

Strawman much?

So, you're mad because we saved tens of thousands of Japanese lives that would have been lost in a land invasion? I think the racism is strong in you.

Did you confuse your nouns again? We saved tens of thousands of Japanese by dropping atomic bombs on them? We had been fire bombing them for such a long time they were beyond defeated and were trying to surrender, but we had to show russia are might by dropping atomic bombs. The point here is that your lies about the goverment representing anything Christian is just a lie. And that is on the voters.

Well, quit electing Godless Democrats and maybe we'll find out.

I'm an anarchist because I follow Jesus. I an neither Democrat nor Republican. Like I said, if you identify as a Republican, you ain't christian.

He's also much more knowlegable about the history and founding principles of our republic than you are.

It doesn't matter what he thinks. These are man made rules. Why do you want to pretend they are magic or sacred or something? Need more things to commit idolitrous blaspheme with?

Yeah, because we stick our nose in places where it doesn't belong. Thank Truman, a Democrat, for that.

Just another side of the coin that rejects God. Like one side didn't set the conditions that the other side inhereted. And they both loved it. Let's see, Japan wanted to be an ally because they wanted China, but China was promised to other allies so Japan joined Hitler who didn't care if they got china. We kept the chinese population addicted to opium, kinda like we spread crack to our own people to fund wars, and Japan rolled over China, and all the other little countries no one ever heard of before, like Vietnam. The communists started growing in china, and they had 0 tolerance for opium, which the people started to think was a good idea. We conqured Japan, ironically backstabbing them twice and then invested countless monies building them back up. We kicked them out of Vietnam and we gave it back to the French, who got there ass kicked by the undrugged communists, and then we got our ass kicked handedely. Many things were glossed over here and there are certianly argueable points, but the point to this is that evil events that we started come back to bite us over and over again, and to say "more dems started a war than republicans" is to ignore reality, kinda like saying that in all the officer involved shootings of black males, there was a black male present so black males are at fault.

stolen elections,

Bwahahahahaha. And no has offered proof of this. Do you know why? Because you can go to jail for false proof. More like sore loosers you mean.

Well, I guess we don't have to ask whether you're Tweedledum or Tweedledee now.

I was wondering when you were going to get to that. You are predictable.