AS a Christian can you ever vote DEMOCRATIC

Tweedle

Active member
Loaded question and projeciton.

LOL - you feel your threats are supposed to mean something? LOL I cant care less what you do.

So no you dont know what intellectual honesty is.
Still waiting, anytime you want to dialouge, just add some substance.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
Ah, another Leftist who's too stupid to understand the difference between rights and freedoms.

All men do have these rights. It's why the Declaration of Independence says "All men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights".
Does the bible say anything about the Declaration of Independence? The only rights God gives us is to be a Christian, have peace with Him, and go to Heaven. Even Jesus said we were going to suffer in this world at the hands of men.

I want you to think about this Mike. If God gave all humans everywhere the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness then why doesn't He punish anyone that tries to hinder these rights? US law punishes those who hinder the rights of others that the constitution gives. Why doesn't God punish the leaders in China over the Uighurs since the "rights" He gave them are being denied? What about all these other countries that kidnap children and force them into types of slavery. Why isn't He punishing them since they are denying children of the God given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? What God says in the bible is that we can have peace with Him and that due to that we will suffer in this world but will have a better world to look forward to. This world is what "we" make it.

Also, when the founding fathers wrote the D of I, "All men are created equal" for them = all white male landowners. It didn't include the poor slaves, native americans, or women. It took much blood, sweat, and tears decades and centuries later to start making this saying true for all people. The D of I is mainly about the US declaring itself free and independent from England. It is a general document that was used to inspire the colonists, win foreign allies, and announce the creation of a new country.
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Yes, those are my words.

edit I said Christianity is vital to our liberty and our prosperity, not that Christianity is vital only to Christians' liberty and prosperity.
Nope. you omitted part of what you said...
Mike McK said:
However, they stated many times that religion, specifically, Christianity, is vital to our liberty and our prosperity.

You keep making false claims about your own posts. Specifically, Christianity means that other religions are excluded from being vital to the liberty and prosperity of Americans.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Now, jump down to post #299 and look what ferengi says:

And he says it twice.
Is Ferengi your authority on rights? If those rights are inalienable it wouldn't matter if it is recognized or not. The fact that you are not born with a gun and the right to bear one does not transfer with you to other countries is proof that it is not inalienable.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Ezekiel 3:17



14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the LORD was strong upon me. 15 Then I came to them of the captivity at Telabib, that dwelt by the river of Chebar, and I sat where they sat, and remained there astonished among them seven days. 16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.


https://catholicvote.org/phoenix-priest-speaks-hard-truths-on-catholic-voting-and-abortion/
So your version of Christianity eliminates choice?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of immoral and sinful actions.
Yep , that pretty much covers almost everyone.
I think we forget that.
Nope , people are aware of this, They are trying to make political parties into churches.
There are moral implications on both sides of the table.
In the whole country...
Democrats are pro-abortion which is against the teaching of many churches. The teachings in my congregation oppose abortion. Democrats will allow man to marry man and recognize it. They are for recognizing the LGBT community. Many churches oppose this on moral grounds as well.
That is because the Democratic party is not a church, people are refusing to accept that.
Republicans are guilty too. They are pro gun. How many innocent people are killed in gun related events but they don't want to do anything about it? They just let people have all the guns they want and the chips fall where they may. They are pro law and order to an extreme. How many innocent people get locked up or have been murdered on death row? They have a "lock em up" mentality. They are anti immigrant. I mean build a wall. Really? How many families have been broken up at the border? Does that sound Christian? They are anti social program. Jesus said to help the poor and feed the hungry.
that is because the Republican party is not a church
This is not the Republican agenda.
But that is what they do, so it pretty much seems like their agenda
They cut social programs at every opportunity. The Republican party is inherently racist. You can see this all the way from Nixon's southern strategy to supporting white supremacists groups who call themselves militias. They will not denounce these groups. The party is non diverse and run by the men. Then you have Trump. He is the most immoral leader of all time. He mocks the disabled, sleeps with prostitutes (while married), assaults women, bullies his subordinates, lies continually, and practices division. But the Republican base (including Evangelicals) have pledged their support to him.
That is because the Republican party is not a Church.
I think of Luke 13:1-3. Any and all unrepentant sin will cause us to be lost. We place a "premium" on abortion and gayness and we forget about all the other sins. In God's eyes no one sin is any bigger than any other. As Christians our concern should be to spread the gospel of Christ and change the hearts of individuals.
That my friend is not the agenda of any party. That is church business.
Whom folks want to vote for is a private matter and the church should not be concerned with it.
Yep...that sums it up...
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Does the bible say anything about the Declaration of Independence? The only rights God gives us is to be a Christian, have peace with Him, and go to Heaven. Even Jesus said we were going to suffer in this world at the hands of men.
OK, Uncle Ernie. I'll bite: Where does the Bible say we have a right to be Christians and go to Heaven? Every Bible I've ever seen says God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners.
I want you to think about this Mike. If God gave all humans everywhere the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness then why doesn't He punish anyone that tries to hinder these rights?
Who says He won't?
US law punishes those who hinder the rights of others that the constitution gives. Why doesn't God punish the leaders in China over the Uighurs since the "rights" He gave them are being denied?
Who says He won't?
What about all these other countries that kidnap children and force them into types of slavery. Why isn't He punishing them since they are denying children of the God given right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
Who says He won't?
Also, when the founding fathers wrote the D of I, "All men are created equal" for them = all white male landowners. It didn't include the poor slaves, native americans, or women.
So you claim. Their writings, including the first draft of the Declaration of Independence, Northwest Ordinance, etc, say otherwise.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
The current president is pretty much the antithesis of what Jesus calls His followers to be, yet many Christians support him.
because of the policies, they agree with.
The same can be said about many of the policies of the Republican Party.
yep, voters support policy they agree with
Perhaps it depends on whether or not one is truly a follower of the teachings of Jesus.
No, it doesn't it depends on the policy that they agree with. There are those who agree with the party and not policy. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
OK, Uncle Ernie. I'll bite: Where does the Bible say we have a right to be Christians and go to Heaven? Every Bible I've ever seen says God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners.
God saves us so we should stop sinning then we could inherit the kingdom of God...
Rom 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Gal 5:
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
God saves us so we should stop sinning then we could inherit the kingdom of God...
Rom 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Gal 5:
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Wonderful verses, all, but have nothing to do with the question I asked.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Wonderful verses, all, but have nothing to do with the question I asked.
Then one can say the bible does not say what you said also...Every Bible I've ever seen says God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners. You want to play silly word games.The verses that I posted show that we are saved so that we should not continue in sin and if we obey we shall inherit eternal life. That right is available to everyone.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Then one can say the bible does not say what you said also...Every Bible I've ever seen says God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners. You want to play silly word games.The verses that I posted show that we are saved so that we should not continue in sin and if we obey we shall inherit eternal life. That right is available to everyone.
Well, one could, but one would be a liar, since Romans 5 very clearly says, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. "

Literally, not one of the verses you posted says God gave us the right to be Christians or to go to Heaven. And this passage from Romans 5 shows that, not only do we not have the right, but that God reached out to us in spite of our sin, not because some foolish troll on the internet thinks we have a "right".
 

Tweedle

Active member
Well, one could, but one would be a liar,

Wow, are you calling Jesus a liar?

Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[c]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”


Jesus was asked a simple question, "How do we attain salvation?" and Jesus answered how a person can attain salvation, "by keeping the law."

Tada!

"Do this, and you will live." is a "right" (in the way I believe you peeps are talking about it here.)

I know, I know, bunch of you are going to get bunched, but don't crucify the messenger, I'm only quoting the crucified messenger.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Well, one could, but one would be a liar, since Romans 5 very clearly says, "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. "
Show me the words "God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners." It says God shows his love for us while we were sinners. Christ died for us. What it does not say is..."God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners." You can argue it is what you believe or that is what it means....but it does not say that. Actually, it says we are saved by him(Christ) from the wrath of God.
Literally, not one of the verses you posted says God gave us the right to be Christians or to go to Heaven.
Literally, your verses do not say ..."God saves us in spite of the fact that we're sinners." You proved it yourself.
And this passage from Romans 5 shows that, not only do we not have the right, but that God reached out to us in spite of our sin, not because some foolish troll on the internet thinks we have a "right".
How can we not have the right if you are saying God saved us?
 
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