AS a Christian can you ever vote DEMOCRATIC

HillsboroMom

Active member
In answer to the OP, no I can’t. For one reason... abortion.
If you refuse to vote for Democrats because of abortion, then surely you must also refuse to vote for Republicans because of their support of wars that result in the slaughter of innocent children in Central and South America, the Middle East, and other places around the world.

And yes, many Democrats support these wars, too, which is why I am not a Democrat, either. I am at least consistent on the issue.

Are you?
 

ferengi

Well-known member
If you refuse to vote for Democrats because of abortion, then surely you must also refuse to vote for Republicans because of their support of wars that result in the slaughter of innocent children in Central and South America, the Middle East, and other places around the world.
What wars in Central and South America? The middle east is a defensive war for American safety against terrorism.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
If you refuse to vote for Democrats because of abortion, then surely you must also refuse to vote for Republicans because of their support of wars that result in the slaughter of innocent children in Central and South America, the Middle East, and other places around the world.

And yes, many Democrats support these wars, too, which is why I am not a Democrat, either. I am at least consistent on the issue.

Are you?
I agree with your statement here. Typically I find that people who are anti abortion support other things that kill people such as being pro gun. I am not saying that Magdalena is pro gun but this is typically what I find with those who are anti abortion. Don't kill the babies but let's not do anything about gun violence that kills people as well. The answer to guns is not "more guns." They also tend not to support public programs which also lead to deaths. Have the baby but we don't want to provide any public assistance on healthcare after it's born. You're on your own after you're born.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Although there's a difference between being "pro-gun" and "pro-2A."

I am not "pro-gun." I personally don't care for guns. I've gone target shooting several times, and it does nothing for me. If an intruder were attacking me or my son, and I had time to grab a gun, I would probably be able to shoot him, but I certainly wouldn't take up arms the way many pro-gun people do (like my husband).

I believe the 2nd Amendment is important, however, and disagree with many on the left who want to limit guns. It makes me extremely nervous to allow the government to decide who gets to have a gun and who doesn't, because when they decide, it's not going to be in the people's interest. Are they going to allow poor people to arm themselves, or just rich people who can afford licenses and insurance? Are they going to allow BIPOC or just white people?

For example, one idea on the left is, "Well, certainly we shouldn't let mentally unstable people have guns." But who gets to decide who is "mentally unstable"? I take medication for depression, though I haven't had an episode for almost 30 years. Should I be allowed to have a gun? And if mental fitness is a requisite for gun ownership, how does that work? Are gun salesmen supposed to be licensed psychiatrists now? Or are we going to violate HIPPA now and tell gun salesmen our mental health history in order to buy a gun?

Similarly, "Surely felons should not be allowed to have guns." But I can see how this can be abused. Seeing how states like Florida abuse former cons and strip their right to vote, I can totally see a state saying to BIPOC, "You were arrested 20 years ago for possession of a drug that isn't even illegal any more, so no, you can't have a gun," while it lets that white slum lord who is constantly being sited for fraud and shady deals arm himself to the teeth.

I totally grok the right's views on 2A, and why it's important not to let the government limit it, just like other rights, like speech, voting, and religion.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
Guns dont kill people - people d0 - so this is a false analogy fallacy.
You are correct. Guns don't kill people. People use guns to kill other people and guns are typically their weapon of choice. People who are pro gun support the widespread availability of guns. This widespread availability is instrumental in the deaths of many. The most common case is that people get guns while they are sane and then they snap for one reason or the other and have access to a gun. They go out and kill somebody with the gun they have. The data also shows that in the majority when a gun incident occurs having a gun to respond with on you doesn't help. You don't have either the time or the wits to get your gun out. "More guns" is not the answer. The statistics (in the US) show that more guns lead to more deaths. This is not true for other nations that have a different gun culture than America does. The gun culture in America is the biggest problem and needs to be addressed.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
Although there's a difference between being "pro-gun" and "pro-2A."

I am not "pro-gun." I personally don't care for guns. I've gone target shooting several times, and it does nothing for me. If an intruder were attacking me or my son, and I had time to grab a gun, I would probably be able to shoot him, but I certainly wouldn't take up arms the way many pro-gun people do (like my husband).

I believe the 2nd Amendment is important, however, and disagree with many on the left who want to limit guns. It makes me extremely nervous to allow the government to decide who gets to have a gun and who doesn't, because when they decide, it's not going to be in the people's interest. Are they going to allow poor people to arm themselves, or just rich people who can afford licenses and insurance? Are they going to allow BIPOC or just white people?

For example, one idea on the left is, "Well, certainly we shouldn't let mentally unstable people have guns." But who gets to decide who is "mentally unstable"? I take medication for depression, though I haven't had an episode for almost 30 years. Should I be allowed to have a gun? And if mental fitness is a requisite for gun ownership, how does that work? Are gun salesmen supposed to be licensed psychiatrists now? Or are we going to violate HIPPA now and tell gun salesmen our mental health history in order to buy a gun?

Similarly, "Surely felons should not be allowed to have guns." But I can see how this can be abused. Seeing how states like Florida abuse former cons and strip their right to vote, I can totally see a state saying to BIPOC, "You were arrested 20 years ago for possession of a drug that isn't even illegal any more, so no, you can't have a gun," while it lets that white slum lord who is constantly being sited for fraud and shady deals arm himself to the teeth.

I totally grok the right's views on 2A, and why it's important not to let the government limit it, just like other rights, like speech, voting, and religion.
I am not pro gun either. I think the 2nd amendment was written in a different time and is misapplied today. I am also not for taking guns from people. I think America's biggest issue is it's gun culture. If we could solve that then our gun issue would disappear.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
I am not pro gun either. I think the 2nd amendment was written in a different time and is misapplied today. I am also not for taking guns from people. I think America's biggest issue is it's gun culture. If we could solve that then our gun issue would disappear.
From your lips to God's ears.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
^^^^^ This. More guns isn't the answer. Less guns isn't the answer.

Changing hearts and minds is the answer, and it may not even be possible.
That's why I am saying that the US gun culture is the problem an d needs to be addressed. Again .... I am not for taking guns away from people. I do think that there are too many guns being manufactured though.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
People who are pro gun support the widespread availability of guns.
Because we support the GOD GIVEN right of self defense and keeping and bearing arms.
This widespread availability is instrumental in the deaths of many.
Your evidence is? You contradict yourself. Fist you say " Guns don't kill people." - Now you say guns kill people. Please resolve. Your claim is false - again people kill - the instrument they use has nothing to do with guns.
The most common case is that people get guns while they are sane and then they snap for one reason or the other and have access to a gun. They go out and kill somebody with the gun they have.
Prove it.
The data also shows that in the majority when a gun incident occurs having a gun to respond with on you doesn't help.
Prove it.
You don't have either the time or the wits to get your gun out.
Not me. Prove it.
"More guns" is not the answer
Actually it IS the answer -if you were informed on the facts you would know this - Read 'More Guns, Less Crime" - Lott - The research to disprove your empty claim is false.
The statistics (in the US) show that more guns lead to more deaths.
False - see above.
The gun culture in America is the biggest problem and needs to be addressed.
No the problem is morality - and the lack of morality the comes with the evil of atheism.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
We in the US are infatuated with guns in a way that no other civilized people are.
No - free exercise of god given rights is not infatuation. Is a hobby infatuation?
Is gun ownership uncivilized? Thats what you imply. Who is "uncivilized"? Thats racist darwinian language.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
Because we support the GOD GIVEN right of self defense and keeping and bearing arms.

Your evidence is? You contradict yourself. Fist you say " Guns don't kill people." - Now you say guns kill people. Please resolve. Your claim is false - again people kill - the instrument they use has nothing to do with guns.

Prove it.

Prove it.

Not me. Prove it.

Actually it IS the answer -if you were informed on the facts you would know this - Read 'More Guns, Less Crime" - Lott - The research to disprove your empty claim is false.

False - see above.

No the problem is morality - and the lack of morality the comes with the evil of atheism.
More guns is not the answer. That's like saying to put out a fire I need more fire. Morality is not the issue either. In most murders, people snap for one reason or the other and go kill someone. Most murders with guns are one individual killing another.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
No - free exercise of god given rights is not infatuation. Is a hobby infatuation?
Is gun ownership uncivilized? Thats what you imply. Who is "uncivilized"? Thats racist darwinian language.
The "right to bear arms" did not come from God. The US constitution didn't come from God. Men in the 18th century wrote it. It's a man made document. That's why it's been amended as time has gone on. I never called anyone uncivilized. I said that the US (which is a civilized nation) is infatuated with guns in a way that no other civilization on earth is. We love our guns no matter how many deaths they are involved in.
 
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ferengi

Well-known member
More guns is not the answer.
Yes it is - Read - - Read 'More Guns, Less Crime" - Lott - The research to disprove your empty claim is false. The freer the 2nd Amendment is exercise the less crime- its an objective empirical fact
That's like saying to put out a fire I need more fire.
False assumption because you assume without evidence and in contradiction to the proven empirical fact that guns are the problem.
Morality is not the issue either.
Yes it is. People kill not because of guns but because of the devaluation of human life. That devaluation flows logically from false beliefs such as atheism.
Most murders with guns are one individual killing another.
It has nothing to do with guns. People kill with all kinds of tools- its immorality not guns.
 

ferengi

Well-known member
The "right to bear arms" did not come from God.
Yes it did - Read the Declaration of Independence - We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Rights come from god.
You are dangerous to our freedom if you deny that fact.
 
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