Atheism And Ceasing To Exist Oblivion.

JAG

Active member
JAG Writes:
When you die, is that the end of you?
Or do you continue to live on and on somewhere after you die?

Atheists answer those questions as follows:

Some atheists say they do not know if humans cease to
exist after death, that there may be an afterlife.

Many other atheists say that humans DO cease to exist after
death. The following remarks are addressed only to those atheists
who we can correctly label "Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists."

Cockroaches . . .

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a cockroach, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist. This is
a very sad position to hold and believe.

House plants . . .

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a house plant, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist. The same
very sad thought.

Question for Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists: How does it make
you feel to believe that you have no more ultimate worth and value
than a house plant and a cockroach?

Or dead critters smashed in road kills . . . .
{they cease to exist too }

Again, that which ceases to exist has no ultimate worth and value.
Nothing cannot be valuable. Cockroaches and house plants die and
cease to exist. They cease to be valuable. They become trash to be
collected and discarded.

On Cease-To-Exist Atheism you eventually cease to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero. Atheists do have
worth and value in the present to their own selves and in their
own mind and in their own feelings. And they do have present
worth and value to their family and to their friends. However on
Cease-To-Exist Atheism atheists have no ultimate worth and
value because they ultimately become nothing. Zero. 0.0000

Atheists can make valuable contributions to humanity and they can
leave behind that value, for example if an atheist finds a cure for a
disease -- but the atheist himself, on his atheism, has no ultimate
worth and value because on atheism he ceases to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero 0000000 and a zero
is not valuable. He ONCE WAS valuable --- but now that he has,
on atheism, become a zero, he is no longer valuable.

Ultimate definition: "being or happening at the end of a process."
On Cease-To-Exist Atheism atheists will cease to exist at the end
of the process of their lives.

That which no longer exists is not worth anything.
Its utterly impossible for nothing to be valuable.
And on Cease-To-Exist Atheism, they end up
ultimately in oblivion, as in nothing. Zero.

This is very sad. Atheism is pure sadness.

No future.

No hope.

Name one, just one, good thing about ceasing to exist.
Name it:
{1} _________________

Contrast Christendom's great doctrines of Eternal Life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16

"My sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me, I give them
eternal life and they shall never perish." John 10:27-28

JAG

``
 
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re: "Name one, just one, good thing about ceasing to exist."

It would certainly be preferable to being given eternal life so one could be tortured 24/7 forever and ever.
 
re: "Name one, just one, good thing about ceasing to exist."

It would certainly be preferable to being given eternal life so one could be tortured 24/7 forever and ever.

Um, those who are given eternal life WON'T "be tortured 24/7 forever and ever".
I guess you've never read the Bible?
 
Theo1689,
re: "...those who are given eternal life WON'T 'be tortured 24/7 forever and ever"."

I think a goodly number of folks believe that that is the fate of the unsaved.
 
Theo1689,
re: "...those who are given eternal life WON'T 'be tortured 24/7 forever and ever"."

I think a goodly number of folks believe that that is the fate of the unsaved.

Um, the "unsaved" DON'T have "eternal life".
 
JAG Writes:
When you die, is that the end of you?
Or do you continue to live on and on somewhere after you die?

Atheists answer those questions as follows:

Some atheists say they do not know if humans cease to
exist after death, that there may be an afterlife.

Many other atheists say that humans DO cease to exist after
death. The following remarks are addressed only to those atheists
who we can correctly label "Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists."

Cockroaches . . .

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a cockroach, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist. This is
a very sad position to hold and believe.

House plants . . .

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a house plant, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist. The same
very sad thought.

Question for Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists: How does it make
you feel to believe that you have no more ultimate worth and value
than a house plant and a cockroach?

Or dead critters smashed in road kills . . . .
{they cease to exist too }

Again, that which ceases to exist has no ultimate worth and value.
Nothing cannot be valuable. Cockroaches and house plants die and
cease to exist. They cease to be valuable. They become trash to be
collected and discarded.

On Cease-To-Exist Atheism you eventually cease to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero. Atheists do have
worth and value in the present to their own selves and in their
own mind and in their own feelings. And they do have present
worth and value to their family and to their friends. However on
Cease-To-Exist Atheism atheists have no ultimate worth and
value because they ultimately become nothing. Zero. 0.0000

Atheists can make valuable contributions to humanity and they can
leave behind that value, for example if an atheist finds a cure for a
disease -- but the atheist himself, on his atheism, has no ultimate
worth and value because on atheism he ceases to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero 0000000 and a zero
is not valuable. He ONCE WAS valuable --- but now that he has,
on atheism, become a zero, he is no longer valuable.

Ultimate definition: "being or happening at the end of a process."
On Cease-To-Exist Atheism atheists will cease to exist at the end
of the process of their lives.

That which no longer exists is not worth anything.
Its utterly impossible for nothing to be valuable.
And on Cease-To-Exist Atheism, they end up
ultimately in oblivion, as in nothing. Zero.

This is very sad. Atheism is pure sadness.

No future.

No hope.

Name one, just one, good thing about ceasing to exist.
Name it:
{1} _________________

Contrast Christendom's great doctrines of Eternal Life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16

"My sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me, I give them
eternal life and they shall never perish." John 10:27-28

JAG

``
If one is of Christ, Love, doesn't matter what happens to you in an after life when you are dead in this world, what matters ito God is who you are today and how you live this day. Not many really consider Him in His way do they?
 
Theo1689,
re: "...the 'unsaved' DON'T have 'eternal life'."

OK, sorry. For some obviously incorrect reason I thought you were somehow implying that the unsaved would experience never ending torture/torment.
 
So you believe in annihilation of the unsaved.

Speaking for myself and not for Theo, "from dust you are, and dust you shall return" is simple enough, the answer is yes. The hope of the Christian is resurrection from the dead (dark age Catholic doctrine notwithstanding).

Your initial point is valid: "It would certainly be preferable to being given eternal life so one could be tortured 24/7 forever and ever." The 5th century church did a great disservice to the simplicity of the gospel by popularizing the doctrine of "hell" (among other things).
 
Speaking for myself and not for Theo, "from dust you are, and dust you shall return" is simple enough, the answer is yes. The hope of the Christian is resurrection from the dead (dark age Catholic doctrine notwithstanding).

Your initial point is valid: "It would certainly be preferable to being given eternal life so one could be tortured 24/7 forever and ever." The 5th century church did a great disservice to the simplicity of the gospel by popularizing the doctrine of "hell" (among other things).
Eternity is not a time frame. Eternal life is how we live it this day. It isn't what we take with us when we go, it is what we leave behind that of God as Jesus did that is eternal, passed on from one to the other for the past 6000 or so years of Gods existence in man on earth.

Adam passed on what it is to become like God to know this difference in Gen 3:22 right up to this very day, and that same Spirit will cary on from us all who has recieve that life that is eternal to anyone who will recieve His eternal life to become like Him to know this difference no different from what SAdam did becoming like Him to know this difference.

This difference was passed on to Jesus in Matt 3:16 the very same as with Adam and all in between who came to the knowledge of God as Adam did and Jesus did, as Abraham did, as Moses did as 120 did and all today who will themselves over to the same.
 
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Eternity is not a time frame. Eternal life is how we live it this day. It isn't what we take with us when we go, it is what we leave behind that of God as Jesus did that is eternal, passed on from one to the other for the past 6000 or so years of Gods existence in man on earth.

Is there an authoritative source for your definition of "eternity" and "eternal life"? Dictionaries and lexicons don't seem to back up your understanding.

As it stands, your definition destroys the most of the New Testament preaching on the resurrection and the kingdom of God.
 
Is there an authoritative source for your definition of "eternity" and "eternal life"? Dictionaries and lexicons don't seem to back up your understanding.

As it stands, your definition destroys the most of the New Testament preaching on the resurrection and the kingdom of God.

From Paul:

Behold I tell you a mystery, not all shall sleep.
 
Is there an authoritative source for your definition of "eternity" and "eternal life"? Dictionaries and lexicons don't seem to back up your understanding.
Eternity = a state to which time has no application; timelessness. Copied that from the dictionary that you say doesnt support it.

As it stands, your definition destroys the most of the New Testament preaching on the resurrection and the kingdom of God.
Not really. Jesus was very clear that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is within you. Like 17:20-21. That is the timeless eternity. It always will be that way with God for He never changes, same then as today and will be the same tomorrow in man, however man in his own ideas aside from receiving God within as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 as all of those before him received the same from God is eternal, it goes on and and on in whoever wills themselves to Him and receive from God that what Jesus and these did. It was passed on to 120 in an upper room right down to us all today. It is eternal life in Gods anointing, which is Christ in you, same One who was in Jesus.

Christ = Gods anointed and either you are anointed of God as Jesus was or you are not, which would be Christ in you.

Look at Adam, Jesus wasn't the first to become like God to know this difference, see Gen 3:22 Adam was.

If it destroys most of the the New Testament preaching, it is that these preach a different gospel than Jesus did to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus did, just as all of these before received from God His same perfections.

Jesus received His perfections in Matt 3:16, he didnt know God nor His heaven either until God came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man. And in that He does destroy the notions of god as ia a man and not Spirit who resided ion that man.

The ways of man is they have made a man a god instead of receiving the One true God as Jesus did. just look at the before and afters in all of these especially Jesus who God removed from the religious minds of the temple he once taught in even at a young age and became like God to know this difference no different from Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, 120, and all today who is born again of God as all of these were.

The religious minded comes to me with the demand that I must believe this and that and I must did this and that.

The Spiritual minded comes to me with the demand that I square my life with the standards of Jesus in the Father.
 
From Paul:

Behold I tell you a mystery, not all shall sleep.
I follow the ways of Jesus in his prfections in the Father as in Matt 5:48, not Paul. Most are Pauline and not perfect instead of Christian to be like Jesus was in his God He obeyed and prayed to and said sent him to show us what it is to be in the Father and He in you as one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17. Not many follow the ways of Jesus, few who find his ways in the Father to have His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following that is common among those who has from God that what Jesus received from God ion Matt 3:16 where God opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man just as He does in us all who will ourselves over to Him.
 
I follow the ways of Jesus in his prfections in the Father as in Matt 5:48, not Paul. Most are Pauline and not perfect instead of Christian to be like Jesus was in his God He obeyed and prayed to and said sent him to show us what it is to be in the Father and He in you as one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17. Not many follow the ways of Jesus, few who find his ways in the Father to have His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following that is common among those who has from God that what Jesus received from God ion Matt 3:16 where God opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man just as He does in us all who will ourselves over to Him.

ya ........you have mentioned that before.
 
ya ........you have mentioned that before.
Many times.

Most are reluctant to venture out to seek the kingdom of God first, they stop at what someone else has told then that sounds good to the flesh man in carnality and go into spiritual retirement and sound asleep spiritually, actually afraid to venture out into something they are not familiar with.

It all goes back to noting ventured, noting gained.
 
JAG Writes:
When you die, is that the end of you?
Or do you continue to live on and on somewhere after you die?

Atheists answer those questions as follows:

Some atheists say they do not know if humans cease to
exist after death, that there may be an afterlife.
Is it possible that there is an afterlife for chickens too?
Cockroaches . . .

On Humans-Cease-To-Exist Atheism there is no ultimate difference
in the end of a human being and a cockroach, in that both have the
same ultimate destiny, namely oblivion as in ceasing to exist. This is
a very sad position to hold and believe.
Sometimes truth is sad.
Question for Humans-Cease-To-Exist-Atheists: How does it make
you feel to believe that you have no more ultimate worth and value
than a house plant and a cockroach?
That's obviously a loaded question. It also doesn't follow that something's worth is determined by its end. A beautiful palace and a rundown shack can both be destroyed by fire, but they are hardly of the same value. In my case, I think I'm of greater value than a cockroach, but the cockroach has her own opinion.
Again, that which ceases to exist has no ultimate worth and value.
Nothing cannot be valuable.
I must disagree because something can be valuable now even though some day it will lose its value.
On Cease-To-Exist Atheism you eventually cease to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero. Atheists do have
worth and value in the present to their own selves and in their
own mind and in their own feelings. And they do have present
worth and value to their family and to their friends. However on
Cease-To-Exist Atheism atheists have no ultimate worth and
value because they ultimately become nothing. Zero. 0.0000
That's the case for everybody and not just atheists. A truth you don't like is a truth nevertheless.
Atheists can make valuable contributions to humanity and they can
leave behind that value, for example if an atheist finds a cure for a
disease -- but the atheist himself, on his atheism, has no ultimate
worth and value because on atheism he ceases to exist and that
which has ceased to exist has become a zero 0000000 and a zero
is not valuable. He ONCE WAS valuable --- but now that he has,
on atheism, become a zero, he is no longer valuable.'
Actually, atheism is a position on God's existence and not on the existence of an afterlife. Atheists can believe in an afterlife.
This is very sad. Atheism is pure sadness.
For atheists or for you? Many atheists are happy people.
Name one, just one, good thing about ceasing to exist.
Name it:
{1} _________________
There's no more pain, and in particular the Christian hell doesn't exist to torture people.
Contrast Christendom's great doctrines of Eternal Life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16

"My sheep listen to my voice, I know them, and they follow me, I give them
eternal life and they shall never perish." John 10:27-28
You omitted the passages about eternal damnation. For me at least, living forever in paradise isn't worth others living forever in hell.
 
Eternity = a state to which time has no application; timelessness. Copied that from the dictionary that you say doesnt support it.

If you had left a link, that would be more impressive.

Harper collins says nothing of the sort (link) Time has application in all definitions.
Merriman Webster says nothing of the sort (link) Time has application in all definitions
American heritage dictionary says nothing of the sort (link) Time has application in all defintions
Oxford Lerners says nothing of the sort (link). Time has application in all definitions
Cambridge dictionary says nothing of the sort (link). Time has application in all defintions
Dictionary.com says nothing of the sort (link). Time has application in all defintions

Sporacle (a crossword website) returns your result. I wouldn't really consider it authoritative by any means.

I did find it in the "oxford Pocket Dictionary of current english" where it says:
infinite or unending time: lasted for all eternity.
a state to which time has no application; timelessness.


That is certainly a cherry picked definition.


Not really. Jesus was very clear that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is within you. Like 17:20-21.

He said that to the Pharisees on one occaison and it isn't recorded in the other gospels or in any other place. That is certainly a cherry picked understanding of a cherry picked passage.

May I suggest that redefining the entire kingdom based on this singular passage and an obscure definition of the word "eternity" is the wrong way to go about understanding and preaching what the kingdom of God is.

At the very end of Christ's ministry, right before his ascencion, and after he had spent 40 days teaching the apostles about the kingdom, they had a completely different understanding of the kingdom that what you preach:

He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

The apostles, who had alot more knowledge that us regarding what Jesus preached about the kingdom believed that Israel once posessed the kingdom, and that it would be restored to them. They didn't believe the kingdom was something esoterical.
 
From Paul:

Behold I tell you a mystery, not all shall sleep.

Let's read the passage (1 Cor 15)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It certainly seems to me that the passage is talking about a specific point in time, where the dead are raised incorruptible. Which sounds nothing like what Gary Mac was talking about.
 
You omitted the passages about eternal damnation. For me at least, living forever in paradise isn't worth others living forever in hell.
Become enlightened.
I will help you just a little bit.
Here:
If you want enlightenment, start with that ↑ link.
If not, then party on, pecking the keys.

PS
Fudge is as Bible believing orthodox as they come.

Scot me up Beamy.

JAG

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