Atheism and free will: proof that God exists.

I have to respectfully disagree.
What am I to think? That the all powerful God of the universe would cause you to talk in a nonsensical manner, or that you were having a psychological, emotional reaction to the idea of God and all that follows from it.
 
I believe that you believe it is not by choice, after all, you're a determinist.
Not what I asked.

Given that you have stipulated that you could not choose to believe that you are wrong about Christianity's being true, not all beliefs are a choice under your paradigm.

Under that paradigm - where we have free will - what will convince you that my disbelief is not a choice?
 
What am I to think? That the all powerful God of the universe would cause you to talk in a nonsensical manner, or that you were having a psychological, emotional reaction to the idea of God and all that follows from it.
I didn't speak in a nonsensical manner nor as a result of emotionalism. (I did become somewhat emotional as I realized what was happening but that was not the cause but as a result of the manifested presence of God) Neither was I drunken as the apostles and other disciples were accused of in Acts chapter 2. You can believe whatever you want to believe. I know that what I experienced came from the Holy Spirit of God.
 
I didn't speak in a nonsensical manner nor as a result of emotionalism. (I did become somewhat emotional as I realized what was happening but that was not the cause but as a result of the manifested presence of God) Neither was I drunken as the apostles and other disciples were accused of in Acts chapter 2. You can believe whatever you want to believe. I know that what I experienced came from the Holy Spirit of God.
So what did you say? How do you know it was from the holy spirit?
 
Not what I asked.

Given that you have stipulated that you could not choose to believe that you are wrong about Christianity's being true, not all beliefs are a choice under your paradigm.

Under that paradigm - where we have free will - what will convince you that my disbelief is not a choice?
I could choose to believe that Christianity is not true but I would be either lying or deluding myself.
 
I understand why you think that it is all in my head. If it truly was all coming from the my mind, then I would not want to believe it. I have been interested in truth this whole journey from atheism to theism and now.

I'm curious why these things would be if evolution were true? How would it be possible for the natural emergent properties of the brain to come up with something that does not naturally exist? It shouldn't, right? The brain should only concur with that which evolved it, nature.
I'm not saying that evolution is false but that for this to be true God has to be involved in the process.

Isn't that enough proof that God does exist?

Why do you think that Ian Hutchinson believes "that the religious impulse is almost universal in humans"? it was in his opening remarks.
Evolution is a messy process with no guarantees. 99+% of all species that have existed are extinct. If the brain is wrong X% but right enough to allow more offspring, natural selection will select for it.

That the religious impulse is universal is no indication that some particular religion is true.
 
You can believe whatever you want to believe. I know that what I experienced came from the Holy Spirit of God.
With all respect, you are believing what you want to believe, given that
  • you have yet to articulate the process by which you weed out false conclusions, especially from subjective, internal experiences;
  • you have resisted or misapplied Occam’s razor; and
  • your conclusions from your experiences violate Bayes’ theorem (put simply, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence).
I apologize because, when I lay it out like that, it sounds harsh, and I don’t mean my tone to be nasty in the slightest, but all those factors do need to be put together at some point.
 
Evolution is a messy process with no guarantees. 99+% of all species that have existed are extinct. If the brain is wrong X% but right enough to allow more offspring, natural selection will select for it.

That the religious impulse is universal is no indication that some particular religion is true.
Or indication that there is a creator God?

When I asked God to help me, I did not have a specific God in mind.
 
With all respect, you are believing what you want to believe, given that
  • you have yet to articulate the process by which you weed out false conclusions, especially from subjective, internal experiences;
The test for prophets in the Bible is if what they say comes to pass, then that prophet is of God. Would that test satisfy you?
  • you have resisted or misapplied Occam’s razor; and
I believe I used Occam's razor rightly when the only logical explanation is a spiritual one.
  • your conclusions from your experiences violate Bayes’ theorem (put simply, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence).
You won't consider my subjective evidence that I find convincing that God exists. You won't consider the claims of those who knew that Jesus died, rose from the grave and ascending into heaven in front of them, either. Does your atheism get in the way of you finding anything other than what you already believe?
I apologize because, when I lay it out like that, it sounds harsh, and I don’t mean my tone to be nasty in the slightest, but all those factors do need to be put together at some point.
I choose to believe the relationship I have with God is real based on the evidence I have experienced of him.
 
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The test for prophets in the Bible is if what they say comes to pass, then that prophet is of God. Would that test satisfy you?
I was talking about the process for evaluating the evidentiary value of a subjective, experience. A prophecy presumably prophesies an objective reality, which is a different matter.

Also, a prophecy has to be specific, and not fulfillable by multiple potential events, cant be contaminating the reports of the fulfillment of the prophecy, etc., etc.

I believe I used Occam's razor rightly when the only logical explanation is a spiritual one.
Except you didn’t, as I recall, produce an actual logical distinction for which, after properly rejecting all but one explanation, we would be left with the necessarily true one. But we’d have to go back and re-litigate that one. Which is OK if you want to.

You won't consider my subjective evidence that I find convincing that God exists.
Strictly speaking, I definitely would consider it, I have considered it, but I have found it in sufficient.

You won't consider the claims of those who knew that Jesus died, rose from the grave and ascending into heaven in front of them, either.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Mere writings, without a secure chain of custody for the originals, when we have no physical objects, nor people we can interrogate, about what is arguably the most fantastic claim one could make, isn’t enough.

Does your atheism get in the way of you finding anything other than what you already believe?
But what I believe in this regard is believed on the basis of an open and articulable epistemology, one that has had much success (as used by science). As I’ve said, I’m completely open to some other process or method, but every time I ask you for it, I never get back from what exactly what that process or method is. So it’s not my fault I’m stuck with science.

I choose to believe the relationship I have with God is real based on the evidence I have experienced of him.
it’s insufficient evidence for accepting the claim, and it has no articulable process or method of checking, etc.
 
Because you leave a space for the possibility of God's existence. Temujin is different.
The fact that my disbelief is provisional does not make it volitional.

Somebody tells me they tossed a coin on hundred times, and it came up heads one hundred times in a row - is that possible? Yes.
Do I believe that it happened? No.

Can I choose to believe that it did? Also, no.

And that's when the probability is known to me, unlike your god's.
 
The fact that my disbelief is provisional does not make it volitional.

Somebody tells me they tossed a coin on hundred times, and it came up heads one hundred times in a row - is that possible? Yes.
Do I believe that it happened? No.

Can I choose to believe that it did? Also, no.

And that's when the probability is known to me, unlike your god's.
If the possibility of God is nil, in your mind, then why bother to even say there is a possibility?
You can't even choose to believe or not to believe so its a moot point.
 
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