Atheism doesn't exist in reality.

Tercon

Member
Atheism doesn't exist in reality, because all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality. And if atheism is just a lack of belief or unbelief, then atheism cannot be known to exist in reality. So, if you think atheism exists in reality, then that is just you demonstrating your own self-deception.
 

Temujin

Active member
Atheism doesn't exist in reality, because all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality. And if atheism is just a lack of belief or unbelief, then atheism cannot be known to exist in reality. So, if you think atheism exists in reality, then that is just you demonstrating your own self-deception.
Well, you have certainly managed a powerful demonstration of self-deception.
 

Tercon

Member
Actually all you have done is demonstrate in real-time with your projecting how deluded you are in believing YOUR unbelief (atheism) is known to you, when in reality ALL knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality order to be known and experienced by us.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
Actually all you have done is demonstrate in real-time with your projecting how deluded you are in believing YOUR unbelief (atheism) is known to you, when in reality ALL knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality order to be known and experienced by us.
What comes first, knowledge or belief?
 

rossum

Active member
Atheism doesn't exist in reality
So your disbelief in Thor, Durga and the Yellow Emperor does not exist. As a Christian you are presumably an atheist with respect to the vast majority of gods worshipped by humans. Are you wrong to disbelieve in all those gods?
 

Tercon

Member
So your disbelief in Thor, Durga and the Yellow Emperor does not exist. As a Christian you are presumably an atheist with respect to the vast majority of gods worshipped by humans. Are you wrong to disbelieve in all those gods?
Nope, as if I have no belief in "Thor, Durga and the Yellow Emperor", then I have no knowledge of their existence either.

Strawman, as I don't believe in the existence of any unbelief including atheism, when in reality ALL knowledge of the truth requires a belief in reality and not a lack of belief or unbelief, because in reality there is no knowledge graspable or knowable to be had in or from any unbelief. Why? Because belief is necessary (and not unbelief) to make the truth and reality known.
 

Temujin

Active member
Nope, as if I have no belief in "Thor, Durga and the Yellow Emperor", then I have no knowledge of their existence either.

Strawman, as I don't believe in the existence of any unbelief including atheism, when in reality ALL knowledge of the truth requires a belief in reality and not a lack of belief or unbelief, because in reality there is no knowledge graspable or knowable to be had in or from any unbelief. Why? Because belief is necessary (and not unbelief) to make the truth and reality known.
Do you know everything that there is to be known? Is there no fact or object existing that you do not know about?
 

Whatsisface

Active member
What belief do you have that you also have "no knowledge of" silly?
You seem to have misunderstood me. I asked...
What comes first, knowledge or belief?
...to which you replied...
If belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to us, then a belief in reality must occur before the truth is known to us in reality.

So you're saying that to know the truth and reality of something, i must first believe it. I'm asking how can I believe something before I know about it in truth and reality?
 

Tercon

Member
Do you know everything that there is to be known? Is there no fact or object existing that you do not know about?
What I do know is that if belief is necessary in order to make ALL knowledge of the truth and reality known to us and the only way and place that is capable of making the truth and reality known to us is a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the product of a believing mind. And you cannot show or demonstrate otherwise.
 

Nouveau

Active member
Atheism doesn't exist in reality, because all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality. And if atheism is just a lack of belief or unbelief, then atheism cannot be known to exist in reality. So, if you think atheism exists in reality, then that is just you demonstrating your own self-deception.
Baldness is just a lack of hair. Yet bald people exist in reality. How is this possible? What belief is required for bald people to exist?
 

Nouveau

Active member
What I do know is that if belief is necessary in order to make ALL knowledge of the truth and reality known to us and the only way and place that is capable of making the truth and reality known to us is a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the product of a believing mind. And you cannot show or demonstrate otherwise.
No, you don't know that, and everyone has demonstrated otherwise.
 

Tercon

Member
You seem to have misunderstood me. I asked...

...to which you replied...


So you're saying that to know the truth and reality of something, i must first believe it. I'm asking how can I believe something before I know about it in truth and reality?
Non sequitur, as if YOU "must first believe" something in reality before you can "know the truth and reality of something," then belief must come before any knowledge of the truth and reality, because it is our belief that makes the truth and reality known to us.
 

Whatsisface

Active member
Non sequitur, as if YOU "must first believe" something in reality before you can "know the truth and reality of something," then belief must come before any knowledge of the truth and reality, because it is our belief that makes the truth and reality known to us.
What? That makes no sense. How can I believe the truth of say, Australia before I know about it?
 

Tercon

Member
No, you don't know that, and everyone has demonstrated otherwise.
Sure I know that in and about the truth and reality, because YOU (nor can anyone else) show another way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known and made known to exist. It is YOUR silence and ignorance of another way or place outside of a believing mind that insures me of the truth of my argument.
 

Nouveau

Active member
Sure I know that in and about the truth and reality, because YOU (nor can anyone else) show another way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known and made known to exist. It is YOUR silence and ignorance of another way or place outside of a believing mind that insures me of the truth of my argument.
That's just not true, and you know it. You've been told a dozen times that MIPUST is an alternative location for existence. You need to try harder at being honest.
 

Diogenes

Member
Atheism doesn't exist in reality, because all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a belief in reality. And if atheism is just a lack of belief or unbelief, then atheism cannot be known to exist in reality. So, if you think atheism exists in reality, then that is just you demonstrating your own self-deception.

Atheism, as a lack of a belief, refers to an individuals set of beliefs. The person exists. The person has a set of beliefs. The set does not include a belief in God. In that sense, it's not a knowledge claim of reality per se but rather a claim about a person's set of beliefs. In that sense, it's not a self-deception.
 
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