# Atheist or Agnostic

And that is the error that you have...
Which is exactly the same as the error you have, as it is the exact same logical form.

Here is your failed attempt at MI.
1. A candy bar is edible (n=1)
2. K candy bars are edible (n=k)
3. K+1 candy bars = K candy bars + 1 candy bar - both are edible, so K+1 candy bars are edible
4. The universe is more than K+1 candy bars
5. Therefore the universe is edible

#4 is not the same as my proof. You have a false analogy. Why?
The universe is not all edible because it does not consist of just candy bars.
Your argument fails for the exact same reason:
The universe is not designed because it does not consist of just cell phones.

1. A cell phone is designed (n=1)
2. K cell phones are designed (n=k)
3. K+1 cell phones = K cell phones + 1 cell phone - both are designed, so K+1 cell phones are designed
4. The universe is more than K+1 cell phones
5. Therefore the universe is designed

Here is the logical form of your above version:

1. An X is P (n=1)
2. K Xs are P (n=k)
3. K+1 Xs = K Xs + 1 X - both are P, so K+1 Xs are P
4. The universe is more than K+1 Xs
5. Therefore the universe is P

Here is the proof by counterexample that this form is not logically valid:

1. A candy bar is edible (n=1)
2. K candy bars are edible (n=k)
3. K+1 candy bars = K candy bars + 1 candy bar - both are edible, so K+1 candy bars are edible
4. The universe is more than K+1 candy bars
5. Therefore the universe is edible

Here is the correct form of MI which you have failed to actually use (in symbolic and text forms):

P1. F(n.)
P2. F(x) -> F(x+1)
C. (x)[(x>n) -> F(x)]

P1. Something in particular (F) is true of some number n.
P2. For any number, if F is true of it, then it must also be true of its successor.
C. F is true of all numbers greater than n.

Atheist or really Agnostic

To truly be an atheist is to claim that there in no God. But that very claim is to pose an absolute negation about a supreme being. It would be extremely hard to prove such an absolute negation.
Since Romans 1 makes it clear that the KNOWLEDGE of God is intrinsic in humans, Being an real "Atheist" is an impossibility.

The best that unregenerate humans can accomplish in that denial is "Agnosticism" - i.e. they really don't have any real understanding of God's Requirements for their lives, and they're not anxious to find out.

They've done their level best to convince themselves that He's NOT THERE, but in reality, they know HE IS, and that HE REQUIRES SOMETHING of them, that they have no intention of giving.

Paul, in his evangelistic efforts, didn't bother with "Biblical arguments", or "Logical reasoning". He simply presented JESUS, and Him crucified, and let the Holy Spirit do the heavy lifting, as far as "CONVINCING" anybody of anything.

Being an real "Atheist" is an impossibility.
Then you are not a 'real Atheist' with respect to Vishnu, Amaterasu and Allah?

Since Romans 1 makes it clear that the KNOWLEDGE of God is intrinsic in humans, Being an real "Atheist" is an impossibility.
Only if Romans 1 is true, which I know for a fact that it isn't.

Since Romans 1 makes it clear that the KNOWLEDGE of God is intrinsic in humans, Being an real "Atheist" is an impossibility.
I'm afraid Romans 1 doesn't make it clear. Romans 1 claims it only, because it offers no justification, no evidence that it's true. It's justification and evidence that would make it clear.

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I'm afraid Romans 1 doesn't make it clear. Romans 1 claims it only, because it offers no justification, no evidence that it's true. It's justification and evidence that would make it clear.
It is very clear and makes all the sense in the world. If mankind can make intelligently designed things, who made mankind who can create with his intelligence such intelligently designed things?

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:18-20

It is very clear and makes all the sense in the world. If mankind can make intelligently designed things, who made mankind who can create with his intelligence such intelligently designed things?
Evolution explains this very well.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:18-20
More claims without justification.

It is very clear and makes all the sense in the world. If mankind can make intelligently designed things, who made mankind who can create with his intelligence such intelligently designed things?
It is indeed very clear. If God can make mankind who can make intelligently designed things, who made God who can create with his intelligence such intelligently designed intelligent creators as us?

It is indeed very clear. If God can make mankind who can make intelligently designed things, who made God who can create with his intelligence such intelligently designed intelligent creators as us?
God Almighty has always existed. Look it up in His book.

God Almighty has always existed. Look it up in His book.
Then if He has existed into an eternity in the past, how could he arrive at our present?

Then if He has existed into an eternity in the past, how could he arrive at our present?
God is outside of time. I AM means always existed.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. - John 8:58

God is outside of time.
How do you know this? Can you present any physics to show this is possible?

If God has always existed as you say, how can he exist outside of time?

God Almighty has always existed. Look it up in His book.
Which means you agree that the ability to create and design things does not itself require a designer. So you have no basis upon which to insist that humans must be designed.

God is outside of time. I AM means always existed.
That's contradictory. If He has always existed (or indeed if He has ever existed) then there are moments in time when he exists, meaning He cannot be entirely outside of time.

Then you are not a 'real Atheist' with respect to Vishnu, Amaterasu and Allah?
Totally unrelated. Imaginary "gods" aren't an issue.

Only if Romans 1 is true, which I know for a fact that it isn't.

Sorry but the Bible is more significant that "Your Opinion".

Sorry but the Bible is more significant that "Your Opinion".
Sorry, but I have better access to my own knowledge and beliefs than an ancient book written by people who never met me.

Sorry, but I have better access to my own knowledge and beliefs than an ancient book written by people who never met me.
Unimportant.

Sorry, but I have better access to my own knowledge and beliefs than an ancient book written by people who never met me.
The Bible is the word of God so it is the absolute truth. Repent before you meet Him.