Atheist religious beliefs

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Why? What is it about unknown concepts that lead you to this lack of belief?
The fact that I do not know them prevents me from forming a belief in them, so... what, besides not having a belief in them - that is, lacking a belief - is left?
There is no effective difference.
Again, a distinction with no effective difference.
There is no effective difference.
What about them? They're also not married. Again, no effective difference.
You just made my point for me...

whether you reject a marriage proposal or have never received one, you are still unmarried.

Whether you reject the concept of gods or have never "received" it... you are still an atheist.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
The fact that I do not know them prevents me from forming a belief in them, so... what, besides not having a belief in them - that is, lacking a belief - is left?
The fact that you know the concepts are unknown. There are potentially countless concepts that you will never know, and yet you know this so there is no reason to claim that you disbelieve in any of them.
You just made my point for me...
I doubt it.
whether you reject a marriage proposal or have never received one, you are still unmarried.
Not if there is no such thing as marriage in the first place.
Whether you reject the concept of gods or have never "received" it... you are still an atheist.
Not if the concept doesn't exist. You are presenting a word which can be conceived, and defined, but your premise claims that it doesn't exist. You're contradicting yourself.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Nowhere; it is a diagram of human belief positions.
Correct, but this doesn't negate the fact that we're explicitly dealing with the belief or disbelief of atheism. You have no argument without it.
You might as well ask me where cats fit onto it.
Correct. I could also ask you were any and all concepts, not to mention any and all concepts that don't exist.
Do you agree that the top diagram represents your position?
No. It doesn't include atheism which is the object that is under discussion, and what is either believed or disbelieved. Maybe you're beginning to see the problem now.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
The fact that you know the concepts are unknown. There are potentially countless concepts that you will never know, and yet you know this so there is no reason to claim that you disbelieve in any of them.
I don't claim that I disbelieve.
But I still disbelieve.
No. It doesn't include atheism which is the object that is under discussion, and what is either believed or disbelieved. Maybe you're beginning to see the problem now.
OK...

The way you think it is:
wrong.jpg
The way it actually is:
right.jpg

Everybody inside the right hand circle is an atheist.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
I don't claim that I disbelieve.
But I still disbelieve.

OK...

The way you think it is:
No. God is in the center circle, while believes and lacks/disbelieves remain separate from each other while intersecting with god. Unaware has no connection to any of them.
View attachment 1625
The way it actually is:
View attachment 1626

Everybody inside the right hand circle is an atheist.
So those who lack belief are not atheists?

Since I see no reasons presented to assume that someone who is unaware of God would be an atheist, I see no reason to accept this claim.

If the concept doesn't exist, the word doesn't exist. Therefore there can be no atheists when the concept doesn't exist.

Since you have yet to refute or even explain how someone who has no conception of god could be an atheist, the point must be conceded.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
So those who lack belief are not atheists?
Everybody in the right hand circle lacks belief, and there is a division between those who have heard of the concept and reject it, and those that have never heard of the concept to begin with.
Since I see no reasons presented to assume that someone who is unaware of God would be an atheist
If you are unaware of a god, you don't believe (definition)
if you don't believe, you are an atheist (definition)
therefore, if you are unaware of a god, you are an atheist.
If the concept doesn't exist, the word doesn't exist.
Correct.
But the piraha were atheists despite not having a word for it; you are conflating being in State X with being aware that you are in State X.
Since you have yet to refute or even explain how someone who has no conception of god could be an atheist, the point must be conceded.
They not only can be an atheist, they must be an atheist.

P1. If you are unaware of a god, you don't believe (by definition - you can't believe in something of which you are unaware)
P2. if you don't believe, you are an atheist (definition of the word "atheist")

C. therefore, if you are unaware of a god, you are an atheist.

Please indicate the fault in the ^above - which premise is faulty, and why.
 
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shnarkle

Well-known member
Everybody in the right hand circle lacks belief, and there is a division between those who have heard of the concept and reject it, and those that have never heard of the concept to begin with.

If you are unaware of a god, you don't believe (definition)
if you don't believe, you are an atheist (definition)
therefore, if you are unaware of a god, you are an atheist.

Correct.
But the piraha were atheists despite not having a word for it; you are conflating being in State X with being aware that you are in State X.

They not only can be an atheist, they must be an atheist.

P1. If you are unaware of a god, you don't believe (by definition - you can't believe in something of which you are unaware)
P2. if you don't believe, you are an atheist (definition of the word "atheist")

C. therefore, if you are unaware of a god, you are an atheist.

Please indicate the fault in the ^above - which premise is faulty, and why.
Just as you point out one doesn't have to make any claims, so too one will not believe or disbelieve what never enters into their mind in the first place.

There is a concept which you are unaware of. You don't know if it's animal, mineral, or vegetable, and yet according to your logic, this makes you an atheist. When I reveal that this unknown concept is an axiom, you now know this axiom, and you disbelieve it because it doesn't make sense to you. Prior to this revelation, you didn't believe or disbelieve in this axiom because you didn't know of its existence in the first place.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Just as you point out one doesn't have to make any claims, so too one will not believe or disbelieve what never enters into their mind in the first place.

There is a concept which you are unaware of. You don't know if it's animal, mineral, or vegetable, and yet according to your logic, this makes you an atheist. When I reveal that this unknown concept is an axiom, you now know this axiom, and you disbelieve it because it doesn't make sense to you. Prior to this revelation, you didn't believe or disbelieve in this axiom because you didn't know of its existence in the first place.
Where angels fear to tread . . . .

Some people believe in a god. We call them theists.

What shall we call everyone else? The prefix "a-" signifies negation, so a-theist would identify everyone who is not a theist. Everyone is either a theist, or the negation, which is an atheist.

That means atheists include those who
  • claim there are no gods (believe in the claim "there are no gods")
  • say that theists haven't made their case and thus lack a belief in any gods
  • are on the fence and can't make up their minds (agnostics)
  • those who haven't really thought about it much and have come to no conclusion one way or the other
  • those who don't even know the issue exists
  • and maybe others
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
WHO CARES about "Dictionaries"
Literally anybody interested in or debating the meanings and usages of words.
It a demonstrable FACT.
"Demonstrable"? How would one demonstrate that a particular word has a correct definition?

Please demonstrate that "atheism is the active belief that there are no gods" is a fact.
Without appealing to a dictionary/s - as you said,
WHO CARES about "Dictionaries"
 
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Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
SO then you're not an "Atheist" at all - just another common agnostic.
Nope. I'm an atheist. In the real world, the dictionary tells us the meaning of words, and atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of gods. In Bob-world, I've no idea what words mean and don't erally care.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Nope. I'm an atheist. In the real world, the dictionary tells us the meaning of words, and atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of gods. In Bob-world, I've no idea what words mean and don't erally care.
Chuckle!! If you were a "Dictionary Atheist", you wouldn't be here posting at all.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
You demonstrate it yourself, just by being here, and posting. if it wasn't an active belief, you wouldn't even THINK of it.
You are basing the definition of a view held by hundreds of millions of people on the activities of the couple of hundred in here.
Don't see a problem with that?

Or are you too busy picketing veterans' funerals with "GOD HATES GAYS!!!" placards? Because if the Phelps lot do it, all Christians must...
 
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