Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain.

SavedByTheLord

Well-known member
Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

The following is based on the logical argument posited by Blaise Pascal, a mathematician and physicist, and is known as Pascal’s Wager.

According to the Bible, if a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior, that person is saved forever and gets everlasting life that is so incredible it cannot be described. Of course, that is an infinite reward.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But for those who never believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Saviour, when they die they receive an infinite punishment.

Now examine what kind of loss an atheist or agnostic is risking if wrong and what reward they receive if right.

First consider the saved Christian. Assume that the Christian is right. Now the Christian believes that he will receive everlasting bliss in heaven with Jesus Christ. If he is right, he will indeed receive that. The Christian dies happy knowing that is what will happen.

If on the other hand the atheist is correct, the Christian still dies happy with his belief. He never finds out he is wrong and in fact receives everlasting bliss but of a different kind.

So the Christian never loses infinitely. He never even knows he was wrong. He dies happy either way. He does not risk infinite loss. In fact, he could receive an infinite reward.

Now consider the atheist or agnostic. Assume that the atheist is correct. The atheist or agnostic dies and there is no everlasting punishment. He then gets his bliss, everlasting nothingness without God. But he cannot even gloat on being right.

If on the other hand the saved Christian is correct, the atheist or agnostic losses out on an everlasting reward. Instead he receives an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

Now to risk such eternal loss for no eternal gain, you would want almost absolute proof that the atheist is right. But it is logically impossible to pose the absolute negation of a supreme being. In fact, the atheist will refuse to even accept the burden of proof, because he knows that he cannot prove his infinite negation. But without absolute proof, the atheist or agnostic is risking everlasting loss for no everlasting reward.

If absolute proof is impossible, maybe calculating the odds against the existence of God may work. But any odds less that a trillion to one would be too risky. Even longer odds would too risky. An analysis of the facts will show the odds are greatly against the atheist being correct.

It can be proven beyond all doubt that
1. God Almighty does exist and did create all things.
2. The Bible is the very word of God and is completely true.
 
Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

The following is based on the logical argument posited by Blaise Pascal, a mathematician and physicist, and is known as Pascal’s Wager.

According to the Bible, if a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior, that person is saved forever and gets everlasting life that is so incredible it cannot be described. Of course, that is an infinite reward.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But for those who never believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Saviour, when they die they receive an infinite punishment.

Now examine what kind of loss an atheist or agnostic is risking if wrong and what reward they receive if right.

First consider the saved Christian. Assume that the Christian is right. Now the Christian believes that he will receive everlasting bliss in heaven with Jesus Christ. If he is right, he will indeed receive that. The Christian dies happy knowing that is what will happen.

If on the other hand the atheist is correct, the Christian still dies happy with his belief. He never finds out he is wrong and in fact receives everlasting bliss but of a different kind.

So the Christian never loses infinitely. He never even knows he was wrong. He dies happy either way. He does not risk infinite loss. In fact, he could receive an infinite reward.

Now consider the atheist or agnostic. Assume that the atheist is correct. The atheist or agnostic dies and there is no everlasting punishment. He then gets his bliss, everlasting nothingness without God. But he cannot even gloat on being right.

If on the other hand the saved Christian is correct, the atheist or agnostic losses out on an everlasting reward. Instead he receives an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

Now to risk such eternal loss for no eternal gain, you would want almost absolute proof that the atheist is right. But it is logically impossible to pose the absolute negation of a supreme being. In fact, the atheist will refuse to even accept the burden of proof, because he knows that he cannot prove his infinite negation. But without absolute proof, the atheist or agnostic is risking everlasting loss for no everlasting reward.

If absolute proof is impossible, maybe calculating the odds against the existence of God may work. But any odds less that a trillion to one would be too risky. Even longer odds would too risky. An analysis of the facts will show the odds are greatly against the atheist being correct.
Pascals wager makes no sense. As an atheist, how can I make myself sincerely believe for the reason, "I might be wrong"? "I might be wrong" brings no new evidence or information to the table to change my mind. I can't just make myself believe for no good reason.
It can be proven beyond all doubt that
1. God Almighty does exist and did create all things.
2. The Bible is the very word of God and is completely true.
No it can't. If there was such a proof we'd have all seen it by now.
 
Pascals wager makes no sense. As an atheist, how can I make myself sincerely believe for the reason, "I might be wrong"? "I might be wrong" brings no new evidence or information to the table to change my mind. I can't just make myself believe for no good reason.

No it can't. If there was such a proof we'd have all seen it by now.
I use Pascal's wager because I believe that it is at least a reason to consider whether the Bible is true.
 
I use Pascal's wager because I believe that it is at least a reason to consider whether the Bible is true.
Ok.

But I think atheists who do think about about their atheism have given the subject some thought. In fact many who de convert do so because to shore up doubts they look more closely at the Bible which only pushes them further down the road of atheism.

I would need a consensus of Biblical scholars giving good reason to think the Bible is true in order to accept it. That consensus isn't there.
 
Ok.

But I think atheists who do think about about their atheism have given the subject some thought. In fact many who de convert do so because to shore up doubts they look more closely at the Bible which only pushes them further down the road of atheism.

I would need a consensus of Biblical scholars giving good reason to think the Bible is true in order to accept it. That consensus isn't there.
I will warn you that a consensus of Biblical scholars would probably be false.
By the way, that is also a great proof of the word of God.
As bad as the atheists treated me, it was nothing compared to some Biblical scholars.
 
Why do you think that?

I'm not sure why that's a proof.
I have studied this for over 25 years. I do not think it I know it.
And it just one of the great proofs of the Bible as God predicted and warned about this way before such things happened. With exact timing and with all the details.
In Isaiah 41 through 47, God makes this brag in a few verses. Here is one:

20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
21 Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. - Isaiah 41:20-24
 
I have studied this for over 25 years. I do not think it I know it.
In what way? Have you been studying how the Bible came to be as it is in it's present form?
And it just one of the great proofs of the Bible as God predicted and warned about this way before such things happened. With exact timing and with all the details.
In Isaiah 41 through 47, God makes this brag in a few verses. Here is one:

20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the Lord hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.
21 Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. - Isaiah 41:20-24
You're going to have to explain that one.
 
In what way? Have you been studying how the Bible came to be as it is in it's present form?

You're going to have to explain that one.
Israel at times went after other gods which were just Satan and the devils. That is what was happening in the northern part in the time of Isaiah.
So God was challenging the Israelites that were doing this to tell of things that will come to pass. They would not be able to and that would show that they are not God and are nothing. So God does this and this is a proof that the God of the Bible is indeed God.

Here is how you get the exact timing and thus a very great proof that the Bible is the true word of God.

Now the word of God says:

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. – Amos 3:7

So, God reveals things to His prophets who wrote it done. All the Bible is written as prophecy (see 2 Peter 1:22).

So, God cannot rapture His church and bring tribulation unless He revealed it to His prophets who wrote it done. In fact, all the Bible is lit up with fulfilled prophecy of things that must be just before the rapture. The amazing thing is not even that all these things were prophesied to happen but to happen at exactly our time. You see any can say man will have increased knowledge in some indeterminate future time. But the exact timing is given by scripture written about 2000 to 3500 years ago. The exact timing is given by the 6000-year age of the earth and the timeline given by the Bible. This is just another great proof that the Bible is the very true word of God Almighty. God Himself gave that as a proof in the Chapters Isa 41-47.
 
Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

The following is based on the logical argument posited by Blaise Pascal, a mathematician and physicist, and is known as Pascal’s Wager.

According to the Bible, if a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior, that person is saved forever and gets everlasting life that is so incredible it cannot be described. Of course, that is an infinite reward.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But for those who never believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Saviour, when they die they receive an infinite punishment.

Now examine what kind of loss an atheist or agnostic is risking if wrong and what reward they receive if right.

First consider the saved Christian. Assume that the Christian is right. Now the Christian believes that he will receive everlasting bliss in heaven with Jesus Christ. If he is right, he will indeed receive that. The Christian dies happy knowing that is what will happen.

If on the other hand the atheist is correct, the Christian still dies happy with his belief. He never finds out he is wrong and in fact receives everlasting bliss but of a different kind.

So the Christian never loses infinitely. He never even knows he was wrong. He dies happy either way. He does not risk infinite loss. In fact, he could receive an infinite reward.

Now consider the atheist or agnostic. Assume that the atheist is correct. The atheist or agnostic dies and there is no everlasting punishment. He then gets his bliss, everlasting nothingness without God. But he cannot even gloat on being right.

If on the other hand the saved Christian is correct, the atheist or agnostic losses out on an everlasting reward. Instead he receives an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

Now to risk such eternal loss for no eternal gain, you would want almost absolute proof that the atheist is right. But it is logically impossible to pose the absolute negation of a supreme being. In fact, the atheist will refuse to even accept the burden of proof, because he knows that he cannot prove his infinite negation. But without absolute proof, the atheist or agnostic is risking everlasting loss for no everlasting reward.

If absolute proof is impossible, maybe calculating the odds against the existence of God may work. But any odds less that a trillion to one would be too risky. Even longer odds would too risky. An analysis of the facts will show the odds are greatly against the atheist being correct.

It can be proven beyond all doubt that
1. God Almighty does exist and did create all things.
2. The Bible is the very word of God and is completely true.
The problem is that that same logic applies to any other god that promises eternal torture for disbelief (Allah, the islamic god, for one), so one is left with no way of knowing which god's hell to avoid.
 
Atheists and Agnostics risk infinite loss for no gain

The following is based on the logical argument posited by Blaise Pascal, a mathematician and physicist, and is known as Pascal’s Wager.

According to the Bible, if a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Savior, that person is saved forever and gets everlasting life that is so incredible it cannot be described. Of course, that is an infinite reward.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But for those who never believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Saviour, when they die they receive an infinite punishment.

Now examine what kind of loss an atheist or agnostic is risking if wrong and what reward they receive if right.

First consider the saved Christian. Assume that the Christian is right. Now the Christian believes that he will receive everlasting bliss in heaven with Jesus Christ. If he is right, he will indeed receive that. The Christian dies happy knowing that is what will happen.

If on the other hand the atheist is correct, the Christian still dies happy with his belief. He never finds out he is wrong and in fact receives everlasting bliss but of a different kind.

So the Christian never loses infinitely. He never even knows he was wrong. He dies happy either way. He does not risk infinite loss. In fact, he could receive an infinite reward.

Now consider the atheist or agnostic. Assume that the atheist is correct. The atheist or agnostic dies and there is no everlasting punishment. He then gets his bliss, everlasting nothingness without God. But he cannot even gloat on being right.

If on the other hand the saved Christian is correct, the atheist or agnostic losses out on an everlasting reward. Instead he receives an everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

Now to risk such eternal loss for no eternal gain, you would want almost absolute proof that the atheist is right. But it is logically impossible to pose the absolute negation of a supreme being. In fact, the atheist will refuse to even accept the burden of proof, because he knows that he cannot prove his infinite negation. But without absolute proof, the atheist or agnostic is risking everlasting loss for no everlasting reward.

If absolute proof is impossible, maybe calculating the odds against the existence of God may work. But any odds less that a trillion to one would be too risky. Even longer odds would too risky. An analysis of the facts will show the odds are greatly against the atheist being correct.

It can be proven beyond all doubt that
1. God Almighty does exist and did create all things.
2. The Bible is the very word of God and is completely true.
Where to begin? How about considering the benefits or disadvantages of a certain proposition is not a way of determining wether the proposition is true or false. Some falsehoods may be pleasant or even beneficial, while some truths may be unpleasant or harmful. You determine the truth of a proposition by considering the evidence, not by considering wether it would be advantageous or disadvantageous to believe it.
 
Where to begin? How about considering the benefits or disadvantages of a certain proposition is not a way of determining wether the proposition is true or false. Some falsehoods may be pleasant or even beneficial, while some truths may be unpleasant or harmful. You determine the truth of a proposition by considering the evidence, not by considering wether it would be advantageous or disadvantageous to believe it.
The Bible has been proven to be the true word of God.
 
The problem is that that same logic applies to any other god that promises eternal torture for disbelief (Allah, the islamic god, for one), so one is left with no way of knowing which god's hell to avoid.
Good point except the Bible has been proven to be true.
 
For living beings, there's no such thing as infinite loss - and therefore there's nothing being risked.

Stop being so melodramatic.
Excellent point that I never heard of. I am obviously not an infinite being in any sense of the word, so how can I suffer an "infinite loss"?
 
The following is based on the logical argument posited by Blaise Pascal, a mathematician and physicist, and is known as Pascal’s Wager.
Pascal's Wager is usually the first argument new theist posters here lead with, and also the first one they learn not to use. :)

But without absolute proof, the atheist or agnostic is risking everlasting loss for no everlasting reward.
Unless there's a God who rewards rational disbelief and infinitely punishes irrational believers (especially those believing on the basis of a flawed and self-serving cost-benefit analysis). Do you have absolute disproof of such a God?

It can be proven beyond all doubt that
1. God Almighty does exist and did create all things.
2. The Bible is the very word of God and is completely true.
I'd like to see that, though I'm going to have to press X to doubt.
 
Good point except the Bible has been proven to be true.
Really? Odd then that you didn't give the reasons that might show you right about this. It's a funny thing, but the whole world thinks the Earth orbits the Sun because the evidence shows it so, and yet the whole world doesn't think Christianity true despite your claims that the proof is there.

One obvious explanation is that the proof isn't there.
 
Really? Odd then that you didn't give the reasons that might show you right about this. It's a funny thing, but the whole world thinks the Earth orbits the Sun because the evidence shows it so, and yet the whole world doesn't think Christianity true despite your claims that the proof is there.

One obvious explanation is that the proof isn't there.
The Bible, written over 2000 to 3500 years ago, has made many predictions that have come true with exact timing.
 
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