Gus Bovona
Well-known member
nwrt
Atheists and others here:
- Thread starter Algor
- Start date
Electric Skeptic
Well-known member
Atheism is not a religion.
Whateverman
Well-known member
Jimmy worships 2 Gods: the one in Christianity, and the other one in his rejection of Islam.
Bible God isn't gonna like that...
Furion
Well-known member
It's ok Gus, some can't handle people who disagree with them.
And you aren't required to believe you talking with people about your beliefs, or lack thereof, amounts to proselytizing. Think of it as 'gentle persuasion' perhaps.
Definition of PROSELYTIZE
to induce someone to convert to one's faith; to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause; to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
Some disagreements are so ill-stated that a response is not advised.
Of course I do plenty of trying to persuade people to think clearly when I'm at my organization's atheist booth. It's just that calling that proselytizing is an intellectually dishonest attempt to smuggle some sort of religious characteristic into atheism.And you aren't required to believe you talking with people about your beliefs, or lack thereof, amounts to proselytizing. Think of it as 'gentle persuasion' perhaps.
Definition of PROSELYTIZE
to induce someone to convert to one's faith; to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause; to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause… See the full definition
Furion
Well-known member
That is the very definition of it Gus.
You just put an arrogant spin on it by saying you try to get people to "think clearly."
Tiburon
Well-known member
Then you switched to religion to numb your pain.
Temujin
Well-known member
The opium of the people, indeed.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
it would only be arrogant if I didn’t accept from others their attempts to get me to think clearly. In fact, that’s what happens, ideally, when two people disagree and discuss it. Each is trying to get the other to think clearly. In fact, both may succeed
SteveB
Well-known member
I switched to Jesus because he took all my sorrows, all my griefs, all the heartache and gave me his hope, his joy, his life, his liberty, his dignity, his love, ...
Or didn't you read that part when you read the bible?
Isa 53:3-5 WEB 3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of suffering and acquainted with disease. He was despised as one from whom men hide their face; and we didn’t respect him. 4 Surely he has borne our sickness and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed.
If you missed it, here it is.
He took all our pain, and gave us his wholeness.
I'll gladly exchange my agony for himself. I no longer have the sorrows I once lived with.
So...
Yeah?
And?
Furion
Well-known member
Spin away.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
Not an argument. Nothing to reply to.
Furion
Well-known member
Spinning your arrogance is not in argument, no
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
If I had been spinning away arrogance, that would not be an argument, I agree. But I wasn't spinning because I gave a reason why what I did wasn't arrogance.
So I gave a reason why what I did wasn't arrogant. Now, it's your turn to lay out a reason why you think it was arrogant. And then we go back and forth, each one addressing the content of what the other one said and supporting what they say with reasons or evidence. At least that's how I see a conversation with someone who disagrees with me. I'd be interested to hear how you view similar concerns in a conversation when you disagree with someone.
Furion
Well-known member
Just because others may do it does not negate anything Gus. If you can't admit the obvious there is little hope. I prefer reasoned conversation to argument, and I'm waiting for you to just deal with obvious things. I don't think it would kill you to admit your group proselytizes, why wouldn't it? Or the subtle insult of what you posted.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
I agree, but there's more to it than that, and that "more" I've already noted, so when you're ready to address that, I am, too. The key word is "reciprocal." Even though I didn't use that word anywhere above, it's the best single word to describe the additional concepts that come into play beyond "others may do it."
Labeling your view "obvious" is not an argument for your view.
I'm using "argument" without the negative connotations. From Merriam Webster:
2: a reason given for or against a matter under discussion
They presented their arguments in favor of the proposal.
I've given my reasons why I think the word "prosyletize" is a bad one to use for what my atheist group does. If you want to argue against those reasons, I'm all ears.
Furion
Well-known member
No Gus, there really isn't.
That is it.
Whatever would follow is common to all men, we can all justify ourselves.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
That is the intellectual equivalent of sticking your head in the sand, deciding to not see what is plainly right in front of your eyes, as plainly posted by me, and just refusing to deal with it. I don't understand how anyone can do that, but there it is.
Tiburon
Well-known member
And you switched to religion to numb your pain.
Many desperate people do.
It doesn't prove it's validity. Unless it proves the validity of all religions.
All religions have followers with similar stories.
Temujin
Well-known member
All rehab centres do as well.