Atheists - what proof do you need?

[Whateverman]

i told you what subject should be.

Your claim is the subject, and now you're running away from it.

Everyone here understand why, too

 

[Eightcrackers]

I'm familiar with the rhetoric.

1. A question is not rhetoric.
2. What's your answer?

Why should we allow the law to force non-Christians to be subjected to Christianity on property that's as much theirs as yours?

 

[G. Duval]

Your claim is the subject, and now you're running away from it.

Everyone here understand why, too

not really, op does not think i should be here...

 

[5wize]

it has nothing to do with Gnosticism, but can not control your opinions , only my own.

Then you're not a Gnostic.

 

[Eightcrackers]

I imagine if God appeared in central Park and performed miracles while scientists recorded, observed, and verified them it would go a long way to convincing you God is real, right?

That kind of thing?

How about my usual answer:

I don't know what I would need, but I know I haven't seen it yet

?

 

[Whateverman]

not really, op does not think i should be here...

And yet, here you are - running away from both topics.

 

[Eightcrackers]

I've often thought the near-total lack of Christian suicide - in an effort to repent, be momentarily sinless, die and get into heaven - is a serious indictment of Christian doctrine. If Christians themselves don't trust that sincere repentance gets them into Heaven, then why should anyone else.

Christian doctrine also holds that suicide (aka "self-murder", whatever the hell that's suppose to mean) is a sin.

They were aware enough to shut that door very early on...

 

[5wize]

Christian doctrine also holds that suicide (aka "self-murder", whatever the hell that's suppose to mean) is a sin.

They were aware enough to shut that door very early on...

Yes, and it came in handy during the Crusades. The hoi-polloi was conscripted on the promise that participation would temper God's wrath towards them on judgement... you would die in cause of God and buy your way out of your miserable inheritance..

 

[G. Duval]

And yet, here you are - running away from both topics.

lol, i remember a few years ago we talked about that...
your tactics has not changed.

 

[Whateverman]

Christian doctrine also holds that suicide (aka "self-murder", whatever the hell that's suppose to mean) is a sin.

Does that really qualify as doctrine? It sounds more like ad-hoc filler, designed to shore up actual holes in doctrine.

But OK, for the sake of this thread, I'll accept that as true. I would maintain that a Christian parent could find a way to guarantee their child's eternal salvation by doing roughly the same thing: getting them to repent sincerely, and then killing them before they had a chance to infringe upon God's Law. It would be a sacrifice of the highest order: damning yourself that your children might avoid Hell.

It might not be particularly newsworthy, but the failure of Christians to save their kids' eternal souls in this way suggests that their certainty in the tenets of their own religion is nowhere near as strong as many of them would have us believe.

 

[Whateverman]

lol, i remember a few years ago we talked about that...
your tactics gas not changed.

A few years ago? I haven't had this screen name until recently 2020...

In any case, it's obvious you're not interested in correcting your faulty understanding of your holy book. If your God actually exists, that will be entirely your own fault, and I'll get credit for having tried to show you.

As an atheist, I don't believe your God exists, of course, so I'm not expecting any thanks from you, nor kudos from Him...

Ciao

 

[SteveB]

Do you have any of the kind of proof or evidence that atheists have asked for in this thread? Maybe you could start with, 'i read XXX's post on what he/she needs and I do not have that." or 'i read what you asked for LHA and here it is."

That would be listening to us.

Now you're lecturing.

 

[Whateverman]

Now you're lecturing.

You resent the competition, Steve?

 

[Eightcrackers]

But OK, for the sake of this thread, I'll accept that as true. I would maintain that a Christian parent could find a way to guarantee their child's eternal salvation by doing roughly the same thing: getting them to repent sincerely, and then killing them before they had a chance to infringe upon God's Law.

Indeed - and it has happened at least once, that I am aware of.
And the kicker is that such a murder would NOT be an unforgiveable sin... so... what's stopping all parents doing this? Especially before their children reach the "age of accountability" that appears in some doctrines.

 

[G. Duval]

A few years ago? I haven't had this screen name until recently 2020...

i retained my name from other forum i currently visit,
you may remember 'baltic'' I was on and off here, on CARM, since the last century, fwiw.

 

[SteveB]

Or, here's a thought: he could convince us that we've got skin in it!

If your doctor had known that you had cancer, but not made every effort to inform you, instead "leaving you to your own devices" so as "not to force himself into your life", you would consider said doctor a monster.

Your god knows that atheists have "soul cancer", as it were, yet does not make every effort to inform us, and you are completely fine with it. Another example of your hypocrisy.

And he's given you the gospel of Jesus (the only cure for "soul cancer"), but instead of taking the time to engage him on his terms, you complain, and say you should be able to rewrite the entire issue, because you believe that the gospel is too stupid to take seriously.

It seems to me that it's the delivery method you're offended by.

Or is it just the message itself which offends you?

 

[Whatsisface]

And he's given you the gospel of Jesus (the only cure for "soul cancer"), but instead of taking the time to engage him on his terms, you complain, and say you should be able to rewrite the entire issue, because you believe that the gospel is too stupid to take seriously.

It seems to me that it's the delivery method you're offended by.

Or is it just the message itself which offends you?

It's because we have no good reason to think the Gospels anything more than the word of man alone. You should know this by now.

 

[Howie]

Any chance you are going to actually listen to what atheists say they need?

Nope. You have all the physical evidence you're going to get.

Or are you just going to post Bible quotes that we have already said have no value?

🙄

 

[AV1611VET]

That's cruel and unnecessary for sincerely not believing. You're ok with that though, I take it.

According to the Bible, Jesus draws everyone to Him.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This means that everyone has a [sixth sense / ESP / conviction / prompting -- call it what you want] of God's calling.

Some respond to that call and get saved.

Others "pull back" from that call (or prompt) to their detriment.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

And given the fact that God also uses nature to call the world to Him as well ...

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

... you are without excuse.

 

[Eightcrackers]

And he's given you the gospel of Jesus (the only cure for "soul cancer"),

Which is not convincing to the majority of the world. If he refuses to provide what will convince us, he is the same as a doctor writing

"u got canzer - signed, yur doktor"

on a leaflet and putting it under your car's windscreen wiper while you're out shopping.

"The only cure for soul cancer"? What is the word "only" doing in the same universe as an all-powerful and all-knowing god? Your god could make Pepsi cure soul-cancer, if he wanted.

It seems to me that it's the delivery method you're offended by.

What offends me is that, if he exists, he knows what would convince everybody, but only provides what would convince some, and blames the rest for not being convinced.

Or is it just the message itself which offends you?

Being told - not convinced - that I deserve hell offends me.
It doesn't frighten me in the least, because I don't think it's going to happen, but the mentality of the Christian is the problem.