Atonement extended to All

Theo1689

Well-known member
"Is it possible that you might be mistaken in your interpretation of this verse?", There two ways to look at this, probable and possible. Which would invite further discussion in both outcomes.

Nice dodge of my question.

"Or do you claim a perfect understanding of every verse of Scripture?", No.

Okay, so your understanding of 1 John 2:2 might be wrong.
And we think it is.

So simply QUOTING the verse doesn't accomplish anything, does it?




What does give GOD the right to destroy sins, that GOD did not create or own ???

Your question doesn't even make sense.

"What does give God..."?!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
Another one of those world passages we see frequently in the writings of John

1 John 5:19 —ESV
“¶ We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”
John 1:10 —ESV
“He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.”
John 7:7 —ESV
“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.”
John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”
John 14:17 —ESV
“even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.”
John 14:30 —ESV
“I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,”
John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”
John 15:19 —ESV
“If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.”
 
Another one of those world passages we see frequently in the writings of John

1 John 5:19 —ESV
“¶ We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.”
John 1:10 —ESV
“He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.”
John 7:7 —ESV
“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify about it that its works are evil.”
John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”
John 14:17 —ESV
“even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.”
John 14:30 —ESV
“I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming. He has no claim on me,”
John 15:18 —ESV
“¶ “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you.”
John 15:19 —ESV
“If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.”
Thank you for this observation !!!

AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the{G3588 ho, definite article} whole{G3650 holos} world{G2889 kosmos}.

I developed an appreciation of kosmos from Jesus' usage of it.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Thank you for this observation !!!

AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the{G3588 ho, definite article} whole{G3650 holos} world{G2889 kosmos}.

I developed an appreciation of kosmos from Jesus' usage of it.

Yours in Christ, Michael
You are welcome
 
SDAchristian said:
"Is it possible that you might be mistaken in your interpretation of this verse?", There two ways to look at this, probable and possible. Which would invite further discussion in both outcomes.
Nice dodge of my question.
AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the{G3588 ho, definite article} whole{G3650 holos} world{G2889 kosmos}.

From our past discussions, I did not want to guess your meaning in context.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the{G3588 ho, definite article} whole{G3650 holos} world{G2889 kosmos}.

Again, you are dodging my question.
And unlike you, I can actually read the verse in Greek without having to check with "Strong's".

From our past discussions, I did not want to guess your meaning in context.

I appreciate that.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Permit me to rephrase.

What gives GOD the right to destroy sins, that GOD did not create or own ???

Well, first of all, I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm obligated to answer every irrelevant and random question you ask on the forum. Once upon a time, people were mature, and they asked questions in forums, but they were broadcast to the entire forum. Nowadays, people seem to think they can direct responses to a particular person, and demand that they answer every question they can think up.

Second of all, your question is fallacious, as I have no idea what you mean by "God [has] the right to destroy sins", since I'm not aware of any such concept in Scripture.
 
SDAchristian said:
You did not define a misunderstanding on my part, just a declaration of judgment.
I wasn't aware that I was obligated to do so.
You shared your understanding of the verse.
I disagree with it.
What exactly is the problem?
AV Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

I thought and assumed "Teaching" was an expectation from Jesus.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
AV Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

I thought and assumed "Teaching" was an expectation from Jesus.

Jesus also taught this:

Matt. 7:6Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

You're not interested in accepting teaching.
You simply want to argue with the truth.
And I'm not interested in that.
 
SDAchristian said:
"And we think it is.", In the context of "we", who is/are "we" ???
You can't figure that out?
Some respect in apologetics, requires questions, and not projecting opinions nor assumptions.

AV Mt 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I get enough of "projecting opinions nor assumptions" from others, and I try not to emulate their apologetic style.

Though, I will admit, when left no options in stimulating discussions, I have done so. Which does not make it right.

With that said, I recognize groups of people reflecting the same apologetic style. I was hoping to narrow down your comment to a better defined group without projection on my part.

"I will not.", Is a form of disobedience.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
SDAchristian said:
AV Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
I thought and assumed "Teaching" was an expectation from Jesus.
Jesus also taught this:
Matt. 7:6Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
You're not interested in accepting teaching.
You simply want to argue with the truth.
And I'm not interested in that.
"You're not interested in accepting teaching.", Besides your judgment of my style, what did you teach that I did not accept, with Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

"You simply want to argue with the truth.", Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

"And I'm not interested in that.", I realize that participation is voluntary here at CARM. But withdraw maybe a symptom of other issues, not in discussion.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
SDAchristian said:
"I will not.", Is a form of disobedience.
Really?
So you're claiming that I'm obligated to obey you, in whatever you command me?
Sorry to burst your bubble, but.... nope.
AV Ro 1:13-16 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Are you "ashamed" of your teaching/doctrine being examined ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
"You're not interested in accepting teaching.", Besides your judgment of my style, what did you teach that I did not accept, with Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

"You simply want to argue with the truth.", Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

"And I'm not interested in that.", I realize that participation is voluntary here at CARM. But withdraw maybe a symptom of other issues, not in discussion.

Yours in Christ, Michael

<Chuckle>

It's incredibly amusing to me that after I explain to you that I'm not going to continue this discussion, with the blessing of Jesus (Matt. 7:6), you seem to want to continue to DEMAND that I answer all your irrelevant questions.

All you do is demonstrate my justification in not wanting to engage in you.
I have one Lord.
His name is Jesus.
I obey Him, not you.

Have a nice day! :)
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
AV Ro 1:13-16 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Are you "ashamed" of your teaching/doctrine being examined ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

<sigh>

Of course I'm not ashamed of the gospel.
Thank you for the personal attack.
You just give more justification for the correctness of my decision to not continue with you.

I will continue to obey my Lord Jesus Christ (Matt. 7:6).
I'm sorry if you don't like that.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
AV Ro 1:13-16 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. 14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. 15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Are you "ashamed" of your teaching/doctrine being examined ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

So if you are projecting this passage onto me, then you must be admitting that you don't know the gospel, and that you are admitting that you aren't saved.

Is this what you are admitting?

Nice attempt at "bait and switch", since "doctrine/teaching" is NOT the same as "the gospel".
 
<Chuckle>

It's incredibly amusing to me that after I explain to you that I'm not going to continue this discussion, with the blessing of Jesus (Matt. 7:6), you seem to want to continue to DEMAND that I answer all your irrelevant questions.

All you do is demonstrate my justification in not wanting to engage in you.
I have one Lord.
His name is Jesus.
I obey Him, not you.

Have a nice day! :)
AV Mt 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It truly depend how Jesus sorts us according to GOD's Omniscience to our duties to others.

Another discussion is whether Jesus was referring to physical and spiritual needs to others.

AV Ja 2:12-17 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 . What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

AV 1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

AV 2C 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

As long as you realize, you can not blame me, for your withdraw from discussions.

"Have a nice day!", Only when sin is destroyed forever.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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