Atonement extended to All

[John t]

"You're not interested in accepting teaching.", Besides your judgment of my style, what did you teach that I did not accept, with Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

No. He (and I) are not interested in your teaching, which really is attempting to become a slave to your version of works righteousness

"You simply want to argue with the truth.",

Your "version of the truth" is a cut-and-paste of half verses ripped from their context

Cut-N-Paste evidence to support your conclusion ???

Oh, now we can see it clearly. It is OK for YOU to cut-and-paste irrelevant and out -of-context Scriptures, but it is NOT permitted for others to cut-and-paste in context Scripture to you. STOP MODERATING OTHERS, MICHAEL

"And I'm not interested in that.", I realize that participation is voluntary here at CARM. But withdraw maybe a symptom of other issues, not in discussion.

Since when have you become the pseudo psychiatrist? That is quite a statement of hubris. Because we do not accept the "teachings of you or Ellen, we have "issues"

I do note that back on "the other board not mentioned", the other posters did not stand up to your aberrant teaching because they do not discuss other cults, such as the SDA. Perhaps it is you, not others opposing the false SDA works righteousness gospel who need to seek other venues.

 

[TomFL]

AV 1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

John is pretty consistent

John 1:29 ¶ The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 4:42 They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”
John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
1 John 4:14 —ESV
“And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.”
John 3:17 —ESV
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.”
John 6:33 —ESV
“For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.””
John 6:51 —ESV
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.””
John 12:47 —ESV
“If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

 

[John t]

AV Mt 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It truly depend how Jesus sorts us according to GOD's Omniscience to our duties to others.

More out of context nonsense and false condemnation!

Is there any wonder WHY we so strongly oppose your message? Have you not read and comprehended Romans 8:1?

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So continue to falsely condemn those who disagree with you. My Savior, Jesus Christ loves me unconditionally from eternity, He will not condemn me EVER, and nothing like "Ellen nor her minions" can take me from the hands of Jesus

 

[SDAchristian]

No. He (and I) are not interested in your teaching, which really is attempting to become a slave to your version of works righteousness

So you speak for Theo1689 now ??? So are you both Papal Sunday keepers then ???

I thought you gave up on me from the old board, What changed your mind in this new forum board ???

AV Re 13:14-17 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

edit

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

More out of context nonsense and false condemnation!
Is there any wonder WHY we so strongly oppose your message? Have you not read and comprehended Romans 8:1?
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So continue to falsely condemn those who disagree with you. My Savior, Jesus Christ loves me unconditionally from eternity, He will not condemn me EVER, and nothing like "Ellen nor her minions" can take me from the hands of Jesus

AV Jn 15:10-12 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Did Jesus keep His Father's commandments as a legalist in works, to the letter of the law, or as a lover of the Spirit of the law from the Father ???

AV 2C 3:2-4 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

Is what is written on "tables of stone", written "in fleshy tables of the heart" of Jesus, and you as well ???

AV Mt 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

"He will not condemn me EVER ...", I am sure that is the way the goats felt before Jesus judged them for judging saints and prophets with death.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Theo1689]

AV Mt 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

---

AV Ja 2:12-17 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 . What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

AV 1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

AV 2C 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Great Scriptures!
We believe all of them.
But I'm not sure why you're quoting random Scriptures to me.
Maybe you should stop your obsession with me?

As long as you realize, you can not blame me, for your withdraw from discussions.

<Chuckle>
It never occurred to me to do that.
I have no need to "blame" others for anything.

"Have a nice day!", Only when sin is destroyed forever.

Okay then, you can choose to continue to live a miserable life if you wish.
I will instead have peace in God my Saviour.

 

[SDAchristian]

Great Scriptures!
We believe all of them.
But I'm not sure why you're quoting random Scriptures to me.
Maybe you should stop your obsession with me?

"the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith", I am still wondering if "We" relates to this group or another ???

"Maybe you should stop your obsession with me?", I seek to understand your position, relative to scriptures and The Word of GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Theo1689]

"the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith", I am still wondering if "We" relates to this group or another ???

Thank you for sharing your "wonderings" with me.
(But to be honest, I didn't ask.)

"Maybe you should stop your obsession with me?", I seek to understand your position, relative to scriptures and The Word of GOD.

Why?
I'm simply one of almost 8 billion people in the world.
I'm already saved.
Why don't you instead direct your energies to people who don't have the gospel?
(and FYI, that was a "rhetorical" question, and doesn't need a response.)

 

[SDAchristian]

Okay then, you can choose to continue to live a miserable life if you wish.
I will instead have peace in God my Saviour.

"Okay then, you can choose to continue to live a miserable life if you wish.", So I can continue to worship on sabbath without interference from any church and state union, saying otherwise ???

The spiritualists think that 2025 will be a significant year for adjustments for the union of church and state.

No matter what happens in GOD's soon coming judgments, you will not blame a sabbath keeper for causing them ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Theo1689]

"Okay then, you can choose to continue to live a miserable life if you wish.", So I can continue to worship on sabbath without interference from any church and state union, saying otherwise ???

The spiritualists think that 2025 will be a significant year for adjustments for the union of church and state.

No matter what happens in GOD's soon coming judgments, you will not blame a sabbath keeper for causing them ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Why do you keep bothering me with random and irrelevant questions?
Please leave me alone.

 

[brightfame52]

AV Jn 15:10-12 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Did Jesus keep His Father's commandments as a legalist in works, to the letter of the law, or as a lover of the Spirit of the law from the Father ???

AV 2C 3:2-4 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

Is what is written on "tables of stone", written "in fleshy tables of the heart" of Jesus, and you as well ???

AV Mt 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

"He will not condemn me EVER ...", I am sure that is the way the goats felt before Jesus judged them for judging saints and prophets with death.

Yours in Christ, Michael

No Jesus wasnt a legalist, but those who are attempting to keep Gods commandments to please Him and to be assured of His favor and eternal life are !

 

[SDAchristian]

Thank you for sharing your "wonderings" with me.
(But to be honest, I didn't ask.)
Why?
I'm simply one of almost 8 billion people in the world.
I'm already saved.
Why don't you instead direct your energies to people who don't have the gospel?
(and FYI, that was a "rhetorical" question, and doesn't need a response.)

AV Mt 7:13-16 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

"Why?", Jesus said, the majority going in at "wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction". Do you believe this statement of Jesus ??? <<< Bear in mind, Jesus was talking to the church, of the day.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[brightfame52]

AV Mt 7:13-16 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

"Why?", Jesus said, the majority going in at "wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction". Do you believe this statement of Jesus ??? <<< Bear in mind, Jesus was talking to the church, of the day.

Yours in Christ, Michael

The Many on destruction are the works salvation folk !

 

[SDAchristian]

No Jesus wasnt a legalist, but those who are attempting to keep Gods commandments to please Him and to be assured of His favor and eternal life are !

AV Ro 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

That is big misunderstanding in judging one another. IOW, No ONE is righteous by keeping the law. But we do need to understand that Jesus did NOT sin ever !!!

AV Ro 7:6-9 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The same purpose of the law is to identify sin, which Jesus did not change between OT/OC and the NT/NC.

AV 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
AV 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

GOD can still identify sin, by using the commandments. Something to think about !!!

AV Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
AV Ro 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
AV Ro 6:15-17 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

We are commanded to stop sinning.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[brightfame52]

AV Ro 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

That is big misunderstanding in judging one another. IOW, No ONE is righteous by keeping the law. But we do need to understand that Jesus did NOT sin ever !!!

AV Ro 7:6-9 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

The same purpose of the law is to identify sin, which Jesus did not change between OT/OC and the NT/NC.

AV 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
AV 2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

GOD can still identify sin, by using the commandments. Something to think about !!!

AV Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
AV Ro 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
AV Ro 6:15-17 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

We are commanded to stop sinning.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Jesus wasn't a legalist. Only people who work for salvation are. Those who know Christ know that all the commandments that God wanted obeyed for His Honor and Glory, Christ has done that for them He specifically lived and died for. God sees all for whom He lived and died as perfect law keepers Rom 2:13


(for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Fulfilled in Christ Jesus !

 

[SDAchristian]

The Many on destruction are the works salvation folk !

AV Re 22:11-12 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Jesus has identified a misunderstanding between us. Care to discuss what Jesus means ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[TomFL]

Did Christ teach you to kill sabbath keepers ??? <<< The future is coming fast in fulfillment of prophecy.

Yours in Christ, Michael

You are not going to claim keeping Sunday is the mark of the beast are you ?

 

[TomFL]

"... and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.", It's "the image of the beast"=IOTB, that does the killing in the end of time. IOTB is not in existence yet.

AV Re 18:3-5 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

How does GOD define "her sins" and "her iniquities", in order to fulfill GOD's prophecy ???

In all due time, GOD will made known, the true nature of the problem. No excuses then. Listen to GOD !!!

AV Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Depends on your point of view of who kills whom. But really, the problem lies with the RCC.

AV Mt 7:13-16 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Time is running out soon, and for the vast majority("for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way") is clueless.

---

AV Re 16:5-7 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

GOD's prophets know the future.

"saints and prophets" will be killed, and GOD has a special plague for them.

Is GOD so mysterious, that we the sheep of Jesus, can not know who are "saints and prophets" ???

---

I hope you are not a pre-trib rapture person, it's a big disappointment.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Nope not a pre-triber or a premillennialist

but was that a no ?

 

[SDAchristian]

God did not stutter when He told the Scripture writers what to write.

AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

I agree in this verse with you.

Do you really believe Jesus ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Your "version of the truth" is a cut-and-paste of half verses ripped from their context

You are privileged to state your opinion here.

God did not stutter when He told the Scripture writers what to write.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Jesus has warned us all.

Yours in Christ, Michael