Atonement on the cross Doctrine is a destructive error?

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Those that deny Christ,
Christ will deny
as Peter says
"Be always Ready and ABLE to give an answer
to fail to do so is too deny Christ
Just answer the Question; Michael
Common Tater asked
do you believe that the Son is a created being.
let your Yea's be Yea, and the Nays be Nay
don't beat around the bush
a simple Yes or No will suffice
Maybe you care to answer these questions, as well ???
Is Jesus fully human ??? How many humans are not created then ???
Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Buzzard said:
Those that deny Christ,
Christ will deny
as Peter says
"Be always Ready and ABLE to give an answer"

to fail to do so is too deny Christ

Just answer the Question; Michael

Common Tater asked
"do you believe that the Son is a created being."
let your Yea's be Yea, and the Nays be Nay
don't beat around the bush
a simple Yes or No will suffice
------------------------------------------------------------------------
and typical of those that refuse to confess Christ in front of men
Michael gives us the ole SDA deflect and deny
Maybe you care to answer these questions, as well ???
Yours in Christ, Michael

I wasn't asked;
this is the SDA forum;
here its up to the SDA to defend their beliefs
so why are you so Ashamed of Christ
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Are we going to debate Paul's view as well ???
Then Moses asked God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is His name?’ What should I tell them?”
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exodus 3:13-14 NASB
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?”
“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area. John 8:57-59 NASB
They wanted to stone him because he had just claimed to be GOD, Eternal God.
AV Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

I will assume that you believe Jesus always tells the Truth.

AV Jn 8:57-59 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

In believing Jesus' whole testimony, Who said those words in John 8:57-59 then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 4:5-7 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I know who misquoted scriptures to Jesus, for a reason. And others who do the same ???

AV 1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Any Truth, mixed with a lie, is still a whole lie. Reference conversation of Eve and the serpent, in Garden of Eden.
Buzzard said:
Those that deny Christ,
Christ will deny
as Peter says
"Be always Ready and ABLE to give an answer"
to fail to do so is too deny Christ
AV 1Pt 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

"to fail to do so is too deny Christ", How is not answering @Common Tater's question related to "the hope" in Christ, to "deny Christ", please give a plain answer ???

"to fail to do so is too deny Christ", Until you give evidence to reading my heart's feelings, You can state your opinion as often as you want. But each time, GOD will judge the truth of your words back to you.
Buzzard said:
Those that deny Christ,
Christ will deny
as Peter says
"Be always Ready and ABLE to give an answer"
to fail to do so is too deny Christ
Just answer the Question; Michael
Common Tater asked
"do you believe that the Son is a created being."
let your Yea's be Yea, and the Nays be Nay
don't beat around the bush
a simple Yes or No will suffice
------------------------------------------------------------------------
and typical of those that refuse to confess Christ in front of men
Michael gives us the ole SDA deflect and deny
I wasn't asked;
this is the SDA forum;
here its up to the SDA to defend their beliefs
so why are you so Ashamed of Christ
AV 1C 15:45 And so it is written, The{G3588 ho, the definite article} first man{G444 anthropos} Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
Spiritual iterations abound.
AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The{G3588 ho, the definite article} sabbath was made for {G3588 ho, the definite article, in the Greek text}man{G444 anthropos}, and not man for the sabbath:

Is Jesus' testimony for all "{G3588 ho, the definite article, in the Greek text}man{G444 anthropos}" ???

What is your confession of Jesus' above Truth "in front of men" then without "deflect and deny" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Are we going to debate Paul's view as well ???

AV Jn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; " John 17
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; " John 17
AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As you can tell, Jesus' expressions of Truth in words, are not well received here by some other posters. But in this spiritual "war", each side understand who is on who's side.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; " John 17
AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

As you can tell, Jesus' expressions of Truth in words, are not well received here by some other posters. But in this spiritual "war", each side understand who is on who's side.
As long as you know what team you're on SDAc.

Don't Be Ashamed of the Gospel
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord,...who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace; 2 Tim 1
 

Common Tater

Active member
Bookmark BUMP on Thread, to bring it up to top.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Ok, perhaps you will finally give me a clear answer. Do you believe that the Son is eternal God or is he a created being?

I have a feeling that I may be wasting my time, as you refused over and over in this thread to answer the question. That said:
bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
Common Tater are you ready to explore with your built-in assumptions in the words you used ???
You still have not answered the question. Do you believe the Son is Eternal God, or do you believe he is a created being?
Research Thread because of other issues with your Question, since December.
There are built in misunderstandings in your question that have NOT been addressed yet. The main problem, is many have the same problem as you.

"Do you believe the Son is Eternal God ...", Do you seriously believe this ??? <<< Hint: Your question denies the persons of the GODhead with "is" to me. Otherwise you have just confessed tritheism.

AV Ex 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

A True to GOD believer understands that Jesus could have died for His Own Sins, while in the flesh, like any other human.

AV Mt 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Please explain why(From your point of view in your question above.) Jesus did NOT confess Himself in the flesh as "[there is] none good but one, [that is], God:" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Common Tater

Active member
Prologue:
Common Tater are you ready to explore with your built-in assumptions in the words you used ???

Research Thread because of other issues with your Question, since December.
There are built in misunderstandings in your question that have NOT been addressed yet. The main problem, is many have the same problem as you.

"Do you believe the Son is Eternal God ...", Do you seriously believe this ??? <<< Hint: Your question denies the persons of the GODhead with "is" to me. Otherwise you have just confessed tritheism.

AV Ex 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

A True to GOD believer understands that Jesus could have died for His Own Sins, while in the flesh, like any other human.

AV Mt 19:16-17 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Please explain why(From your point of view in your question above.) Jesus did NOT confess Himself in the flesh as "[there is] none good but one, [that is], God:" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Ok, we are back to your usual dance.

You know full well that I am not a tritheist. Tritheism is the belief in three separate gods. I am a Trinitarian as that term is defined by all of Christiandom. I believe that God is One Being that exists as Three Persons that are co-eternal, co-equal, and consubstantial. The Father is fully God, but is not the Son and is not the Holy Spirit. The Son is fully God, but is not the Father and is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is fully God, but is not the Father amd is not the Son.

Adventist believe in three separate god-beings that are united in purpose. That is very much tritheism.

The Bible makes clear that there IS only One God. IS is a state of being. A singular state of being.

Do you believe that the Son is and has always been eternal God, or do you believe there was a time when the Son did not exisr, in other words that he is a created being?
 
Ready, set and GO for it !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael

“Do you believe that the Son is eternal God?”

This is a question that only requires a YES or NO answer.

If your answer is “YES”, please provide the reasons for your belief that the Son is eternal God.

Perhaps this clarified and simplified question may assist you in providing an unambiguous response.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
@SDAc
Spoken like a true law peddler.
AV Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.{G458 anomia}

Spoken like a true presumptionist to GOD's law, not man's law, per Jesus' own words.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
“Do you believe that the Son is eternal God?”
This is a question that only requires a YES or NO answer.
If your answer is “YES”, please provide the reasons for your belief that the Son is eternal God.
Perhaps this clarified and simplified question may assist you in providing an unambiguous response.
Read @Common Tater response in post-635524 and answer his question as an Adventist(or as a true Christian) then ???

AV Jn 10:24-27 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

In my opinion, you are unable to discern the presumptions built into his question(s), which is dodged as well as I have for those reasons.

For you:
AV 1C 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

"If your answer is “YES”, please provide the reasons for your belief that the Son is eternal God.", Is Jesus only the "eternal God" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Do you believe that the Son is and has always been eternal God, or do you believe there was a time when the Son did not exisr, in other words that he is a created being?
AV Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Better wording, but not there yet. You need some scripture support to support your opinions, to which I will not agree to, until you do.

Next hurdle is: "beginning" is for earth or the two persons in textual context ???

For all others who need the help:

"the Word was with God", John describes "the Word" and "with God" as two separate nouns, as part of this discussion.

"do you believe there was a time when the Son did not exisr,", We do not share the same resources to discuss this. And you know this.

AV Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So you want to make this salvific, apart from GOD decision of our own individual salvation decision ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Better wording, but not there yet. You need some scripture support to support your opinions, to which I will not agree to, until you do.

Next hurdle is: "beginning" is for earth or the two persons in textual context ???

For all others who need the help:

"the Word was with God", John describes "the Word" and "with God" as two separate nouns, as part of this discussion.

"do you believe there was a time when the Son did not exisr,", We do not share the same resources to discuss this. And you know this.

AV Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So you want to make this salvific, apart from GOD decision of our own individual salvation decision ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
No, I am not letting you get away with this. Rather than actually answer a question, you offer up questions of your own and state that you will only answer after your questions have been addressed. You do this over and over.

Answer my question. It is a simple one to answer. "Yes, I believe that the Son is and has always been eternal God" or "No, I believe that the Son is a created being".
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Ok, we are back to your usual dance.
According your opinion within your authority, which is within your privileges at CARM to discuss here. NEWS FLASH: GOD does honor all beings authority.

AV 1C 15:40-44 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. 41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. 42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Not to mention your dancing with the stars as well.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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