Atonement on the cross Doctrine is a destructive error?

[JonHawk]

Prologue:
AV Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

AV Ro 11:17-25 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. ...

You found his [Abraham's] heart faithful before You, And made a covenant with him; Neh 9:8 Confirmed by God in Christ; Gal 3:16-18

"My eyes shall be on the faithful of the land, That they may dwell with Me." Ps 101:6-7
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation; Ps 40:10
Your counsels of old are faithfulness and truth. Isa 25:1
"I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, And you shall know the Lord." Hosea 2:20

AV Ro 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Is Paul wrong about being a spiritual Jew of the heart in the NT ???

For I betrothed you to one husband, to Christ; 2 Cor 11:2 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Cor 6:17

God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts; Gal 4:4-6

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Rom 8:16

”They will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, and I will no longer hold their sins against them.” Jer 31:34

 

[GeneZ]

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. This also furnishes another support for Unitarianism. The Scriptures plainly teach that Christ died for all men. Now if his death on the cross was the atonement, then the sins of all men are atoned for, and all will be saved. The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13

The above type of Scripture Scholar is also credited with the Doctrines of the Sabbath, soul sleep, creature christ & the sanctuary. I'm not sure even the Mormons have made such an outlandish affirmation.

The error exists with some because they do not realize how the unbeliever will be condemned.

I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. ​

Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their​

works by what was written in the books. "​

Revelation 20:12 .... reveals that no unbeliever's sins will be mentioned, but their evaluation will be determined by their works. No ones personal sins are an issue any longer in salvation. For, Jesus bore the penalty for their sins on the Cross. Since sins have already been judged? They can not be judged again. The law of double jeopardy will not allow for it.

Instead, it says that all the unbelievers 'works' will be searched and evaluated.

For the unbeliever there will be one work missing.

The work that would have saved them from their condemnation..

Here is that "work" that will not be found.

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because ​

you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. ​

Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which ​

the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”​

​

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

The work that will not be found will be that they did not believe in Jesus.

Its that simple. Its not about sins. Its about believing in Jesus who cleared the way to believe by removing the penalty for sins.

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

grace and peace ..........

 

[pythons]

Prologue:
AV Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

AV Ro 11:17-25 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

AV Ro 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

Is Paul wrong about being a spiritual Jew of the heart in the NT ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

A spiritual Jew is NOT one who observes the Day of Atonement, the Sabbath, etc...
...A spiritual Jew is one who does what the law commands MINUS the ceremonials.
...It's NOT a Gentile who participates in ceremonials commanded on Israel.

 

[JonHawk]

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. This also furnishes another support for Unitarianism. The Scriptures plainly teach that Christ died for all men. Now if his death on the cross was the atonement, then the sins of all men are atoned for, and all will be saved. The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13

The above type of Scripture Scholar is also credited with the Doctrines of [man]

The religion which denies the doctrine of the atonement is not of God, and never can succeed. It may hold together the few, who affect to be intellectual, because they are ignorant. The doctrine of the substitutionary sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ is the fundamental principle of the Christian religion. -Spurgeon

The error exists with some because they do not realize how the unbeliever will be condemned.

But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 2 Cor 4

“The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,
in whom we have redemption through His blood, ...He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1:13-15

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36

 

[Formersda]

The question was meant to get people thinking spiritual what GOD sees in us as different.

AV Ex 32:32-33 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. 33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

So GOD has a Jewish and Gentile section in the Book of Life ???

In the end of time, there are only the saved and the lost, by GOD's discernment.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Yes, show me before the exodus there were a chosen people aka the Jews because they only were called after Abraham. No mention of Jews at the garden of Eden.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, show me before the exodus there were a chosen people aka the Jews because they only were called after Abraham. No mention of Jews at the garden of Eden.

No mention of the called out Church either.... The Bride of Christ was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

God has different purposes in forming his own chosen people. The Jews were chosen to form into a godly nation to set forth as en example on how a nation should be run under God.

The Church has been called as the Lord's Royal Priesthood. Royalty. To reign with Christ.

 

[Formersda]

As for the fact that He raised Him from the dead, He has spoken thus: ‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ Acts 13:33-34

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him; Romans 10:8-13

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. 1 Corinthians 4:5

The bible also says there is neither Jew nor gentile, neither male nor female nor slave or free. You cannot become a spiritual Jew by that verse, otherwise we would be spiritual male or female or spiritual slave.

Just because God recognises believers or non believers doesn’t mean a Jew is not a Jew or gentile not a gentile or male is not a male.

You don’t lose who you are when you become a believer I am still British but I am a believer.

 

[JonHawk]

As for the fact that He raised Him from the dead, He has spoken thus: ‘I will give you the sure mercies of David.’ Acts 13:33-34

For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on Him; Romans 10:8-13

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. 1 Corinthians 4:5

The bible also says there is neither Jew nor gentile, neither male nor female nor slave or free. You cannot become a spiritual Jew by that verse, otherwise we would be spiritual male or female or spiritual slave.

Just because God recognises believers or non believers doesn’t mean a Jew is not a Jew or gentile not a gentile or male is not a male.

You don’t lose who you are when you become a believer I am still British but I am a believer.

You alright bruv? What you lost was your spiritually dead identity, unless you're illegitimate and not sons and daughters.

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

 

[SDAchristian]

Yes, show me before the exodus there were a chosen people aka the Jews because they only were called after Abraham. No mention of Jews at the garden of Eden.

AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What is your definition of Jew then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Common Tater]

AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What is your definition of Jew then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

What is your definition of a Jew? One who keeps the Sabbath?

 

[SDAchristian]

AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What is your definition of a Jew? One who keeps the Sabbath?

I quoted my biblical definition already. It's seems, it went right by you spiritually. This makes me sad.

Was Jesus in the flesh, a true Jew then, per the spiritual expectations of GOD ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[GeneZ]

AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

What is your definition of Jew then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Having been born a Jew, I found the following to be what is so.

A.) There are unregenerate Jews. Racial Jews.

B.) There are regenerate Jews.

Unregenerate Jews only have the genes of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

Regenerate Jews are no longer a Jew in God's eyes. They have become a new creation in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17

Before the Church age began and the age of Israel was still active, true Jews were Jews who had believed in the Lord God of Israel. These born again Jews had a human spirit, but not the indwelling Holy Spirit. The indwelling Holy Spirit is what makes us into a new creation.

After the Millennium is set up and running there will be once again regenerate Jews. They are not a part of the Church. The Church is thye Bride of Christ. Born again Jews are called "friends of the groom" as John the Baptist declared himself to be. John never lived to enter the Church age. John the Baptist remained a true born again Jew.

 

[JonHawk]

And I will give them a new heart, and put a new spirit within them. Ezekiel 11:19

Regenerate Jews... have become a new creation in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5:17

Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints (God’s people) in the Light.
For He has delivered us and has drawn us to Himself from the dominion of darkness, and has transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
in whom we have redemption [because of His sacrifice, resulting in] the forgiveness of our sins [and the cancellation of sins’ penalty].
He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the exact representation of the invisible God], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation. Col 1

 

[GeneZ]

And I will give them a new heart, and put a new spirit within them. Ezekiel 11:19

Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints (God’s people) in the Light.
For He has delivered us and has drawn us to Himself from the dominion of darkness, and has transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
in whom we have redemption [because of His sacrifice, resulting in] the forgiveness of our sins [and the cancellation of sins’ penalty].
He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the exact representation of the invisible God], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation. Col 1

Don't confuse the two. Today when Jew believes he ceases to be a Jew. Just like with the Gentile who believes. We become the new man in Christ. Become a new creation in Christ.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female,​

for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

Ezekiel I believe was referring to the future of the Jew. Those Jews who will be given a new heart while living in the Millennium under the reign of their Lord God the glorified Jesus Christ.

The Church today is no longer consisting of Jew and Gentile. A new man has been created in Christ Jesus!

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, ​

the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. ​

His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in one ​

body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility."Ephesians 2:14-16​

Ezekiel 11:19? That chapter speaks of the future Jews. Those who will be Jews, not the Bride of Christ.

For it speaks of regathering all the scattered Jews as they are today. That being, scattered throughout the world. Regathering them and bringing them back to Israel... To sit on the throne of David and be their King.

“Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Although I sent them far away among the nations ​

and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the ​

countries where they have gone.’ ​

​

“Therefore say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back ​

from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.’​

That describes perfectly what will take place when the Lord returns and regathers all the scattered Jews back to Israel, to set up His 1000 year reign on earth.

 

[JonHawk]

You know the word God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Don't confuse the two. Today when Jew believes he ceases to be a Jew. Just like with the Gentile who believes. We become the new man in Christ. Become a new creation in Christ.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female,​

for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:6

Ezekiel I believe was referring to the future of the Jew.

The destination of the Jew or Gentile without Christ isn't very promising.

At that time you were alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise [with no share in the Messianic promise; having no hope [living] in the world without God, 2:12