Atonement on the cross Doctrine is a destructive error?

rossh

Active member
Your interpretation of history is significantly OFF.
Please explain, why say what you claim and then run off....... The Lord Yeshua never created a Catholic Church He left us with HIS church. He alone by His innocence has saved us. Not the homosexuals and pedophiles and often brutal with both fists and leather straps. I saw this first hand, during my junior and senior School days.. Yes indeed, it is very sad but, it is the truth. I must say/admit that not all of them appeared as such..
 

rossh

Active member
Your interpretation of history is significantly OFF.
So, will you be attempting to explain the import of this thread/post of yours, or not ?
If we confess with with our tongue/mouth verbally that Yeshua is Lord...
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
God Himself has made this easy for all, not only the Jews but for all. Then along comes all the cults in the USA during the 1800, all roughly in the same area, who lead so many astray.
Why is it that you think or, are told, that only YOUR Church can save your souls ?
Only the true Son of God Yeshua has saved our souls and only if we CONFESS HIM ALONE!...
All the WORK OF SALVATION has already been done for all of us. We then, only have to confess with our voices that He is our Lord and Messiah/Savior .. It is really very simple and easy..
 

Formersda

Active member
So, will you be attempting to explain the import of this thread/post of yours, or not ?
If we confess with with our tongue/mouth verbally that Yeshua is Lord...
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
God Himself has made this easy for all, not only the Jews but for all. Then along comes all the cults in the USA during the 1800, all roughly in the same area, who lead so many astray.
Why is it that you think or, are told, that only YOUR Church can save your souls ?
Only the true Son of God Yeshua has saved our souls and only if we CONFESS HIM ALONE!...
All the WORK OF SALVATION has already been done for all of us. We then, only have to confess with our voices that He is our Lord and Messiah/Savior .. It is really very simple and easy..
Hi Rossh,

Pythons is not an Sda!

And AMEN to everything you have said. Jesus is my Lord and after many decades in the SDA church I am free and know that I am saved.
 

JonHawk

Member
In which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

and yes indeed and the preacher there is Yeshua Himself right ? The one that they killed, right. He who LIVES! Forever! Because, God raised Him from the Dead.
As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught,... For in Him you are complete. Col 2:6-13
 

Common Tater

Active member
What does this have to do with my question? Is the belief that the Son is not eternal God, but rather that he is a created being heresy?
Do you believe that the Son was not eternal God, but was instead a created being? Do you believe that there was a time when the Son was not.

This is essentially the same question put three different ways. The answer is simple. The answer is either a yes or a no.
Still waiting for an answer. Feel free to be blunt and to the point and answer with a simple yes or no.
 

JonHawk

Member
Still waiting for an answer. Feel free to be blunt and to the point and answer with a simple yes or no.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. John 1:1-4
 
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Common Tater

Active member
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. John 1:1-4
I'm waiting for sdac to tell me if the Son is eternal God, or if he is a created being. I'm waiting for an answer to the question if there was a time when the Son was not.
 

rossh

Active member
Hi Rossh,

Pythons is not an Sda!

And AMEN to everything you have said. Jesus is my Lord and after many decades in the SDA church I am free and know that I am saved.
Wow, well I am sure you must be relieved and happy about your being called to Yeshua, and how you are now following Him,, our Messiah Savior .. This is wonderful news. I was never in a " cult " per se but I was sent to a RC School and, as such, was a follower of the RCC. I often, when I was in my late teens, started to take notice of their " practices " and such.. Then I knew that I WAS IN a cult..
If I may be bold and ask you ? Do you intend to attend a Church with a Pastor and such and be baptized and to make your confession of faith and join them ? I know it is not my business to ask or to know but I would encourage you to just attend a service or 2 or 3 and listen to a sermon etc; ?

The odd thing is this, I began to notice how they had the Messiah still nailed to a cross and still looking up tp the sky. It may not seem a big deal but, He had not died nor had He yet risen from the dead/grave ( of course ).. which is after all, the King Issue!!!!..
 

JonHawk

Member
I'm waiting for sdac to tell me if the Son is eternal God, or if he is a created being. I'm waiting for an answer to the question if there was a time when the Son was not.
Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.


“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13

The only thing consistent in EGW's teaching is inconsistency:

"Man, with his human, finite judgment, cannot safely question the wisdom of God. ... Before the theme of redemption, let man lay his wisdom in the dust, and accept the plans of Him whose wisdom is infinite...
Through the atonement of the Son of God alone could power be given to man to establish him in righteousness, and make him a fit subject for heaven." EGW, Originally published in The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889.
“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
"They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.
 
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rossh

Active member
Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.


“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13


“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”
― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.
We have to declare Yeshua as our Lord and Messiah aloud in public. This is usually done on/at a Sunday Church Service and is usually follows one's adults Baptism. " I confess Yeshua, God only begotten flesh and blood Son as my Lord and my Saviour/Messiah ! " Bingo! now I am saved.
 

JonHawk

Member
We have to declare Yeshua as our Lord and Messiah aloud in public. This is usually done on/at a Sunday Church Service and is usually follows one's adults Baptism. " I confess Yeshua, God only begotten flesh and blood Son as my Lord and my Saviour/Messiah ! " Bingo! now I am saved.
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception pseudo-intellectual babble, according to the tradition and musings of mere men, following the elementary principles of this world, rather than following the truth—the teachings of Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. 10 And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ], and He is the head over all rule and authority of every angelic and earthly power. Col 2

I'm waiting for sdac to tell me if the Son is eternal God, or if he is a created being. I'm waiting for an answer to the question if there was a time when the Son was not.
Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.

“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13

The only thing consistent in EGW's teaching is inconsistency:

"Man, with his human, finite judgment, cannot safely question the wisdom of God. ... Before the theme of redemption, let man lay his wisdom in the dust, and accept the plans of Him whose wisdom is infinite...
Through the atonement of the Son of God alone could power be given to man to establish him in righteousness, and make him a fit subject for heaven." EGW, Originally published in The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889.
"They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.
“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
 
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rossh

Active member
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception pseudo-intellectual babble, according to the tradition and musings of mere men, following the elementary principles of this world, rather than following the truth—the teachings of Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. 10 And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ], and He is the head over all rule and authority of every angelic and earthly power. Col 2


Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.

“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13


"They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.
“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
Seems that " pythons " is another non believer. These are they, sadly, as it were, are those who only see the speck in the eye of others, but not the huge forest in their own eyes.. sic!
 

rossh

Active member
Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.


“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13


“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
"They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.
who is Ellen White ? Besides this is all that we have to do, yes indeed, to Believe in Yeshua and He alone..
Faith overcomes all.. matt 9:
Matt 9:20 A woman who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years approached him from behind and touched the tzitzit on his robe.

21 For she said to herself, "If I can only touch his robe, I will be healed."

22 Yeshua turned, saw her and said, "Courage, daughter! Your trust has healed you." And she was instantly healed.

23 When Yeshua arrived at the official's house and saw the flute-players, and the crowd in an uproar,

24 he said, "Everybody out! The girl isn't dead, she's only sleeping!" And they jeered at him.

25 But after the people had been put outside, he entered and took hold of the girl's hand, and she got up.

26 News of this spread through all that region.

27 As Yeshua went on from there, two blind men began following him, shouting, "Son of David! Take pity on us!"

28 When he entered the house, the blind men came up, and Yeshua said to them, "Do you believe that I have the power to do this?" They replied, "Yes, sir."

29 Then he touched their eyes and said, "Let it happen to you according to your trust";
Amen..
 

JonHawk

Member
Seems that " pythons " is another non believer. These are they, sadly, as it were, are those who only see the speck in the eye of others, but not the huge forest in their own eyes.. sic!
By their fruits you will know them.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, 2 Peter 1:2
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. 1 Tim 6

rossh said:
We have to declare Yeshua as our Lord and Messiah aloud in public. This is usually done on/at a Sunday Church Service and is usually follows one's adults Baptism. " I confess Yeshua, God only begotten flesh and blood Son as my Lord and my Saviour/Messiah ! " Bingo! now I am saved.
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception pseudo-intellectual babble, according to the tradition and musings of mere men, following the elementary principles of this world, rather than following the truth—the teachings of Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. 10 And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ], and He is the head over all rule and authority of every angelic and earthly power. Col 2

Common Tater said:
I'm waiting for sdac to tell me if the Son is eternal God, or if he is a created being. I'm waiting for an answer to the question if there was a time when the Son was not.
Don't hold your breath waiting for SDAc to give you an answer about the revelation of Jesus Christ when he can't even answer whether you partake of Christ's divine nature by faith or by works.

“The light of the knowledge of the glory of God” is seen “in the face of Jesus Christ.” From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was “the image of God,” the image of His greatness and majesty, “the outshining of his glory.” It was to manifest this glory that He came to our world. To this sin-darkened earth He came to reveal the light of God's love—to be “God with us.” Therefore it was prophesied of Him, “His name shall be called Immanuel.” {RC 152}

pythons:​

“Another error, even more generally endorsed than any of the foregoing, is the doctrine of the atonement on the cross. ...The conclusion is unavoidable, and we deny the doctrine of the atonement on the cross, not because it leads to this belief, but because it is scripturally untrue, and then as an incentive for proclaiming its falsity we have the fact that it is a strong pillar for a destructive error.” Sabbath Herald, August 29, 1865 No. 13

JonHawk said:
The only thing consistent in EGW's teaching is inconsistency:

"Man, with his human, finite judgment, cannot safely question the wisdom of God. ... Before the theme of redemption, let man lay his wisdom in the dust, and accept the plans of Him whose wisdom is infinite...
Through the atonement of the Son of God alone could power be given to man to establish him in righteousness
, and make him a fit subject for heaven." EGW, Originally published in The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889.

"They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner’s credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. ‘I am saved,’ they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?—No; for the garments of Christ’s righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity.”—The Signs of the Times, February 25, 1897.

“Cain and Abel represent two classes that will exist in the world till the close of time. One class avail themselves of the appointed [73] sacrifice for sin; the other venture to depend upon their own merits; theirs is a sacrifice without the virtue of divine mediation, and thus it is not able to bring man into favor with God. It is only through the merits of Jesus that our transgressions can be pardoned. Those who feel no need of the blood of Christ, who feel that without divine grace they can by their own works secure the approval of God, are making the same mistake as did Cain. If they do not accept the cleansing blood, they are under condemnation. There is no other provision made whereby they can be released from the thralldom of sin. The class of worshipers who follow the example of Cain includes by far the greater portion of the world; for nearly every false religion has been based on the same principle—that man can depend upon his own efforts ...As Cain thought to secure the divine favor by an offering that lacked the blood of a sacrifice, so do these expect to exalt humanity to the divine standard, independent of the atonement. The history of Cain shows what must be the results. It shows what man will become apart from Christ. Humanity has no power to regenerate itself. It does not tend upward, toward the divine, but downward, toward the satanic. Christ is our only hope. “There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “Neither is there salvation in any other.” Acts 4:12.”― Ellen G. White, Patriarchs And Prophets
 

pythons

Member
Do you belong to ( the ) One True Church of the Messiah ? The Messiah performed 2 major issues during His years here on earth, does your church and you preach and perform those 2 very important issues as well ?
Also, remind me again as to what exactly did I just " do " as an example ?

The Protestant reformation was started by "educated" churchmen, the likes of Luther & Calvin. It continued to fracture and splinter off - right down to the point of you, rossh. Running around saying Yeshua might gain you some points with some sects and cults but it's not doing much more than that.

rossh said:
Please explain, why say what you claim and then run off....... The Lord Yeshua never created a Catholic Church He left us with HIS church. He alone by His innocence has saved us. Not the homosexuals and pedophiles and often brutal with both fists and leather straps. I saw this first hand, during my junior and senior School days.. Yes indeed, it is very sad but, it is the truth. I must say/admit that not all of them appeared as such..

I work two jobs and don't obviously have the time to post that you do. As you can see I didn't run off.

The Church that existed at and after Jesus' ascension has an extensive history and it looks VERY Catholic (or Eastern Orthodox). The fact is that groups that insist on observing the Gregorian Saturday as a "Sabbath" overwhelmingly REJECT THE TRINITY. The fact is that groups who wouldn't eat a pizza if there is pork in it overwhelmingly REJECT THE TRINITY and the same goes for groups that believe in soul sleeping or similar also reject the Trinity. Another oddity that I've discovered in that folks that insist on using "Yeshua" have a proclivity to reject the Trinity. Perhaps you are not that way but in the likelihood you are of that mindset it's best to start off with that understanding.

Its going to take more than a Louis Farrakhan understanding of history to convince me of your positions rossh. I'm just being upfront about that with you.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Being SDA over time, has become boarder in the greater sense of Our existence and growing over time.
The Book of Life is a center, around which we can understand GOD's goals for us, in our free will choices, during our probation in sin's existence.
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
In your Point Of View, who is "He" ???

In your Point Of View, who is "the Man"/"Him" ???

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Does Jesus' righteousness in the flesh while walking on Earth, fully contrast all that is sin, "to repent" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
... Is the belief that the Son is not eternal God, but rather that he is a created being heresy?
Do you believe that the Son was not eternal God, but was instead a created being? Do you believe that there was a time when the Son was not.

This is essentially the same question put three different ways. The answer is simple. The answer is either a yes or a no.
"The answer is simple.", Only to simply minds !!!

AV Mt 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Do you believe and love, Matthew 3:17 "with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind" ???

Which comes first, a father or a son in flesh relationship to each other ???

Or just for you, who is eternal ordinal in first position of existence, a father or his son ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

rossh

Active member
He did leave us with a "small c" catholic Church, however.
The word " catholic " is an adjective.. The word " Roman " means pagan people.. ( they sacrificed the followers of the Messiah right ? )
Well not sure about others but I came before my children and my father was before me... How is God the Father of Yeshua ? Well simply because Yeshua is His Son!
When God had Moses and all the other Bible writers write what He inspired them to write, God did not even try to have them write about Nuclear Physics and or Atom splitting nor write about microbiology and such.. They would have run away as fast as possible, I am of that.. So the Books of the Bible had to be written in a certain way so that the writers would not run off thinking that God had lost it ? This is especially the point when prophecies and the distant future was spoken of..
I pray for guidance when I read the scripture/s.. Also I see the Word of God as being all about God great love for us humans and how we are to be saved through His son..
 
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