Authority/Responsibility

1Thess521 said:
ok: that is your unproven premise in the OP.
You are asking why don't we submit to an authority that we don't believe has authority.

(another trainwreck of a thread by Dingoling.)
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That wasn't the only point of the thread. If Jesus didn't give the authority to the Pope/Magisterium and no one has been given that authority then why should listen to other sources? Each individual Christian is responsible for what we believe. So the question then becomes - if other Christians are not being held responsible then why should we listen to other Christians?

You are asking why don't we submit to an authority that we don't believe has authority.
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Yes why? That goes both ways.
 
1Thess521 said:
Hey Cyrus,
thanks for getting the Jews out of Captivity
Hey Pharaoh;
thanks for freeing the Hebrew slaves;
Hey Pilate
Thank for declaring Jesus' innocence..
Hey Catholic Church,
Thanks for recognizing the God-breathed Christian writings:

there ya go:
not what
Click to expand...
Not sure if I am following your logic.
 
dingoling. said:
But if the source is not infallible then we cannot be certain that the writings of the NT are the inspired word of God. The old saying that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. We accept the God's word as the highest and only infallible source but if we don't have God's word that tells us which writings are his inspired word then we what do we have? We don't seem to have much to hang our hat on, right?
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work through what you just said and tell us when the Canon was first infallible declared by your Catholic Church
 
dingoling. said:
Not sure if I am following your logic.
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YOU SAID
" I realized that it was my acceptance of the writings of the NT as being the inspired word of God depended on an authority other than scripture. God had to communicate to us what was his inspired word - and the source was the Catholic church."

The POINT is that God uses all types of people to accomplish his Sovereign Will; but that does NOT mean those kingdoms, institutions, or people are infallible!
 
dingoling. said:
That wasn't the only point of the thread. If Jesus didn't give the authority to the Pope/Magisterium and no one has been given that authority then why should listen to other sources? Each individual Christian is responsible for what we believe. So the question then becomes - if other Christians are not being held responsible then why should we listen to other Christians?
Click to expand...
because YOU will be held responsible:
 
1Thess521 said:
work through what you just said and tell us when the Canon was first infallible declared by your Catholic Church
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The NT was first decided upon in the 4th century. The OT was always accepted by the church and so it didn't need to be infallibly declared until it was challenged by certain Christians.
 
dingoling. said:
The NT was first decided upon in the 4th century. The OT was always accepted by the church and so it didn't need to be infallibly declared until it was challenged by certain Christians.
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that is not what I asked:
when the Canon was first infallibly declared by your Catholic Church?
 
1Thess521 said:
YOU SAID
" I realized that it was my acceptance of the writings of the NT as being the inspired word of God depended on an authority other than scripture. God had to communicate to us what was his inspired word - and the source was the Catholic church."

The POINT is that God uses all types of people to accomplish his Sovereign Will; but that does NOT mean those kingdoms, institutions, or people are infallible!
Click to expand...
That is not the same though. If those source that God used to communicate to us what is his inspired word is not infallible then everything that follows from that is not infallible. We are not infallibly certain that those writings are God's inspired word?
 
1Thess521 said:
that is not what I asked:
when the Canon was first infallibly declared by your Catholic Church?
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The NT was in the 4th century, and the OT in the 16th century when it certain writings were challenged by certain Christians.

If you don't accept the authority of the CC then why are you asking? What does it matter?
 
dingoling. said:
That is not the same though. If those source that God used to communicate to us what is his inspired word is not infallible then everything that follows from that is not infallible. We are not infallibly certain that those writings are God's inspired word?
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According to Catholics:
Catholics did not have an an infallible Canon for its first 1500 years..
so STOP pretending an infallible Canon is needed


beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

Sproul: "The Bible is a fallible collection of infallible books"

I noticed Jason Engwer recently addressed R.C. Sproul's statement that the Bible is a fallible collection of infallible books. I wrote abou...
beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com
 
dingoling. said:
The NT was in the 4th century, and the OT in the 16th century when it certain writings were challenged by certain Christians.

If you don't accept the authority of the CC then why are you asking? What does it matter?
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to refute YOUR claim that an infallible Canon is required.
 
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1Thess521 said:
According to Catholics:
Catholics did not have an an infallible Canon for its first 1500 years..
so STOP pretending an infallible Canon is needed


beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com

Sproul: "The Bible is a fallible collection of infallible books"

I noticed Jason Engwer recently addressed R.C. Sproul's statement that the Bible is a fallible collection of infallible books. I wrote abou...
beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com
Click to expand...
Well heresy forces the CC to make an infallible decision. The Canon of scripture wasn't challenged for the first 1500 years so there was no need for the CC to make an infallible decision.

So if the decision on what is God's written inspired word was not infallible then what certainty do we have that those writings we believe to be the written inspired word of God are indeed his written inspired word?
 
dingoling. said:
So if the decision on what is God's written inspired word was not infallible then what certainty do we have that those writings we believe to be the written inspired word of God are indeed his written inspired word?
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what certainty do we have ?
an extremely high degree of certainty::

"Question: How do you know that the books of Scripture are inspired? Only by the authority of the Catholic Church can we know with certainty which books belong to the Bible. All Christians must therefore submit to the authority of the Catholic Church."

answers here http://www.justforcatholics.org/a99.htm
 
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