Babbling Against Tongues

tbeachhead

Active member
Thank you. Because apparently I can't 'interact with God on a daily basis' unless I speak and practice tongues. I can see the pedestal at the end of the tunnel! Wonder what the 'lesser' Christians will look like as I will get to view them from above.
There is an awful lot of "I" "I" "I" here...Humble? Methinks thou dost protest too much. Relate to us how you "interact with God on a daily basis." I'd be interested to hear what you think "praying in the Spirit," "praying with the Spirit," or even "walking in the Spirit" means to you...on a daily basis? How does this differ from "praying with your understanding?" You can use "I" and "me" in your response, and I promise I will not misunderstand.
 

Fenuay

Active member
First, believe that if it is good enough for the Acts church, it is good enogh for you.

Second, ask God to give it to you too.

Third, when it happens, let it flow through you like living waters.

Fourth, thank God every day for tis precious gift and yield to the new found Spirit in your life and practice the gift of the Holy Ghost VIA your human spirit praying per 1 Cor 14.
God has helped me speak in tongues. I have learned ASL, German, and learning Russian now. I have been able.to help people with these gifts on occasion. That is my belief in what speaking in tongues means. And I worship God with my heart and spirit everyday.
 

Truther

Well-known member
God has helped me speak in tongues. I have learned ASL, German, and learning Russian now. I have been able.to help people with these gifts on occasion. That is my belief in what speaking in tongues means. And I worship God with my heart and spirit everyday.
You are learning those known languages VIA the Holy Ghost?
 

civic

Well-known member
First, believe that if it is good enough for the Acts church, it is good enogh for you.

Second, ask God to give it to you too.

Third, when it happens, let it flow through you like living waters.

Fourth, thank God every day for tis precious gift and yield to the new found Spirit in your life and practice the gift of the Holy Ghost VIA your human spirit praying per 1 Cor 14.
Do you perform miracles like the Acts church ?

And the tongue gift is the only self edifying "gift" whereas all the other gifs benefit others not self.

hope this helps !!!
 

civic

Well-known member
God has helped me speak in tongues. I have learned ASL, German, and learning Russian now. I have been able.to help people with these gifts on occasion. That is my belief in what speaking in tongues means. And I worship God with my heart and spirit everyday.
Indeed the BIBLICAL tongues are know languages, that was the miracle of it in Acts 2 where those speaking did not know the language.
 

Fenuay

Active member
You are learning those known languages VIA the Holy Ghost?
Yes. He has helped me to be able to use these languages with greater fluency than I possess to help others. Why is that so hard to believe but speaking gibberish isn't. If you wanna pray in a tongue and you believe you are praying then by all means continue since that is spiritually positive for you. For me I believe it is a gift from God that I can learn foreign languages quite quickly and use them beyond my fluency to help others. I'm grateful for any opportunity I have to help another and for any way in which God sees fit to use me. And if you believe the Spirit is invoking unknown words from you in Spirit and that it is prayer and brings you close to God, then I am very happy for you too. I have never experienced that myself and believe for me the gift of tongues is mastery of other languages in a relatively short period of time.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Do you perform miracles like the Acts church ?

And the tongue gift is the only self edifying "gift" whereas all the other gifs benefit others not self.

hope this helps !!!
I have been used at times, via the power of the name of Jesus Christ.

I can speak in unknown tongues at will also.

The Spirit is subject to the prophet.

It is nice to be led and used of the Spirit of God.

Try it.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Yes. He has helped me to be able to use these languages with greater fluency than I possess to help others. Why is that so hard to believe but speaking gibberish isn't. If you wanna pray in a tongue and you believe you are praying then by all means continue since that is spiritually positive for you. For me I believe it is a gift from God that I can learn foreign languages quite quickly and use them beyond my fluency to help others. I'm grateful for any opportunity I have to help another and for any way in which God sees fit to use me. And if you believe the Spirit is invoking unknown words from you in Spirit and that it is prayer and brings you close to God, then I am very happy for you too. I have never experienced that myself and believe for me the gift of tongues is mastery of other languages in a relatively short period of time.
The Holy Ghost does not teach known languages, nor does it teach unknown tongues.

It speaks though folks that yield to it.

Neither can we "learn" prophesying.

It is all God and 0% us.

God is just giving you a gift of smart to learn to be bilingual.
 

Fenuay

Active member
The Holy Ghost does not teach known languages, nor does it teach unknown tongues.

It speaks though folks that yield to it.

Neither can we "learn" prophesying.

It is all God and 0% us.

God is just giving you a gift of smart to learn to be bilingual.
Well we can disagree. I don't personally believe God, who is not a God of confusion, would elicit gibberish out of a humans mouth through the Holy Spirit. He would elicit the tongue of the people hearing the message. And if nothing else, if it was a tongue (foreign language), there would be a translator as the Bible says. God says if there is no one there to translate then keep quiet.
And prayers are your own tongue. So if you speak gibberish in prayer, you at least think in your own language (for understanding.) God has no need for gibberish utterances when he understands all languages. 😊

And smart does not allow me to speak on a language beyond my knowledge and fluency level. That would be God.
And just for clarity it's poly-lingual. And don't forget ASL 🤟
 

Truther

Well-known member
Well we can disagree. I don't personally believe God, who is not a God of confusion, would elicit gibberish out of a humans mouth through the Holy Spirit. He would elicit the tongue of the people hearing the message. And if nothing else, if it was a tongue (foreign language), there would be a translator as the Bible says. God says if there is no one there to translate then keep quiet.
And prayers are your own tongue. So if you speak gibberish in prayer, you at least think in your own language (for understanding.) God has no need for gibberish utterances when he understands all languages. 😊

And smart does not allow me to speak on a language beyond my knowledge and fluency level. That would be God.
And just for clarity it's poly-lingual. And don't forget ASL 🤟
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries....

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...


You think speaking unto God this particular way is unnecessary?

Are you better than Paul or those of Corinth?

Have you graduated out of this?

You need no further self edification?

You are powerful in yourself.
 

Fenuay

Active member
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries....

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself...


You think speaking unto God this particular way is unnecessary?

Are you better than Paul or those of Corinth?

Have you graduated out of this?

You need no further self edification?

You are powerful in yourself.
I like that you didn't even put this in context. You totally ignore the Scriptures that say when this is done publicly there should be a translator. And no, I don't seek to edify myself. You should do a Google search and understand what that means before promoting self edification.
 

Fenuay

Active member
Google opinions disqualify the highlighted?
Opinions? Words have meaning. These meanings can be determined by using Google to search Webster's or whichever Dictionary you prefer. You can also Google synonyms (words that mean the same thing) in a thesaurus. Opinions are not definitions. So the problem with the highlighted is that you are misunderstanding the definitions of the words and further misunderstanding this by taking only this small portion of the chapter it's from and not getting the full meaning. This is a common mistake I see other Christians make. When discussing the Bible it's good to have an understanding of the definitions of words. I've even seen some Christians go so far as to learn Greek, Hebrew, Latin and whatever Aramaic they can. This helps with a deeper understanding in the languages the Bible was written.
 

Fenuay

Active member
I have been used at times, via the power of the name of Jesus Christ.

I can speak in unknown tongues at will also.

The Spirit is subject to the prophet.

It is nice to be led and used of the Spirit of God.

Try it.
Speaking in tongues is not a prerequisite for God using someone for His good. Did ALL of the disciples and apostles speak in tongues? No. But yet God used them.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Opinions? Words have meaning. These meanings can be determined by using Google to search Webster's or whichever Dictionary you prefer. You can also Google synonyms (words that mean the same thing) in a thesaurus. Opinions are not definitions. So the problem with the highlighted is that you are misunderstanding the definitions of the words and further misunderstanding this by taking only this small portion of the chapter it's from and not getting the full meaning. This is a common mistake I see other Christians make. When discussing the Bible it's good to have an understanding of the definitions of words. I've even seen some Christians go so far as to learn Greek, Hebrew, Latin and whatever Aramaic they can. This helps with a deeper understanding in the languages the Bible was written.
My suggestion is to prove the 2 verses right.

The Google posters disagree with the highlighted portions.

They don't have the Holy Ghost.

1 Cor 14 is written to those that spoke with unknown tongues, not anti-Holy Ghost commentators.

Find someone with the original type of Holy Ghost experience to explain it to you, not the unbeliever.
 

Truther

Well-known member
Speaking in tongues is not a prerequisite for God using someone for His good. Did ALL of the disciples and apostles speak in tongues? No. But yet God used them.
Really?...


2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:....


....you don't speak unto God like they did?

Why?

Are you smarter or better than the Corinthians?
 

Hark

Well-known member
Critics of speaking in tongues have no good answer to these 5 points:
(1) Paul's command to "pray in the Spirit" is fulfilled by striving to speak in tongues. 2 points establish this teaching:
1 Corinthians 12:4-21 testify that tongues are not for private use.

So when people read chapter 14, they do so opposing what the gifts of tongues were for as Paul gave the bottom line by citing the law and the prophets for God's gift of tongues to be of other men's lips to speak unto the people; (1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) not some secret language to speak back to God. 1 Corinthians 14:2 as speaking unto God and verse 28 as speaking unto himself and unto God is referring to understanding what is being uttered. The foreign speaker speaking out of turn in verse 28 for why he is commanded to be silent is what is meant since obviously he is not speaking to himself and neighbor is he speaking to God and so it is the same in verse 2.

In verse 2, the one speaking with God's gift of tongues, no man understand it, mainly the one speaking this as the Spirit manifest it, does not understand it. but God understands it.. The tongue speaker in verse 2 is not speaking TO God because there is no mystery to God, and so the mystery is on the tongue speaker. When reading the message in context of the chapter 14, Paul is exhorting believers that if they seek a spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and began to compare the gift of tongue against prophesy only to convey that the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift to seek after for it needs interpretation.

But if you listen to tongue speakers today, one would think Paul doesn't know what he is talking about; tongues rules. Of course, they do that by ignoring 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 al together as they promote another reception of the Holy Ghost in order to get this tongue for private use, ignoring the warning from Paul in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & John in 1 John 4:1-6 by doing so both found at this link 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 1 John 4:1-6.
(a) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit (Eph. 6:18)" and speaking in tongues is the only form of praying in the Spirit specified in the Bible (1 Cor. 14:15).
Whenever any believer prays, they do so IN the Spirit since the Holy Spirit is in them since salvation.

One can apply Ephesians 6:18 to mean not to pray carnally for things but pray in the Spirit for what is good.

It is the Father's will to give thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers and so how can anyone believe using tongues for private use can obtain that if the tongue speaker does not know what they are saying?, let alone praying so that if they did get an answer to prayer, they can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name. So praying normally IN the Spirit is the only way the Father's will can be done for the prayer to know that prayer has been answered to give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

As for 1 Corinthians 14:15, in context, Paul is again exhorting believers to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts where those who speak in tongues are to pray while they are speaking in tongues that the Holy Spirit will lead another to interpret as 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 teaches.

So while the Holy Spirit is manifesting tongues in the tongue speaker, the tongue speaker is to be praying that someone may interpet so that the tongue speaker may understand it and be fruitful to the tongue speaker himself.

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

So this extra phenomenon that brings that kind of tongue is not of Him at all for why it is not coming with interpretation.

Scripture testify that God is not partial to only some believers. Tongue speakers need His help to discern that if tongues is necessary for the Holy Spirit to make intercessions for us, then why doesn't every believer have tongues? That is why Romans *;26-27 testify that the intercessions of the Holy Spirit are silent, including even His own groanings as it is the Son that searches our heats per Hebrews 4:12-16 as He is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father because the Son is the only Mediator between God and men; 1 Timothy 2:5. What that means is all intercessions goes through the Son so when the father says yes to any of those intercessions, the Son answers the prayer.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

This is why the Father knows everything before we even ask Him so there is no need for tongues for private use as it is not of Him at all.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So Romans 8:26-27 is a testimony of what the Holy Spirit is doing for everybody as His intercessions are silent along with His groanings.
 

Slyzr

Active member
Critics of speaking in tongues have no good answer to these 5 points:
(1) Paul's command to "pray in the Spirit" is fulfilled by striving to speak in tongues. 2 points establish this teaching:
(a) Paul commands us to "pray in the Spirit (Eph. 6:18)" and speaking in tongues is the only form of praying in the Spirit specified in the Bible (1 Cor. 14:15).
(b) Paul commands us to "strive for spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 14:1)" and clarifies this command with his desire for all of us to speak in tongues (14:5).
(c) Paul repeatedly commands us to imitate his spirituality (! Cor. 4:16; 11:1; Phil. 3:17) and makes it clear that such imitation includes a demonstration of the Spirit and of power (2:4-5; 4:19-20).

(2) Point (1) is not undermined by his preference that we all prophesy (14:5).
(a) Nowhere does Paul claim that tongues is the least of the spiritual gifts. On the contrary, if prophecy is the greatest spiritual gift, speaking in tongues is equally great if it is interpreted (so 14:5). In that sense both gifts are equally great and therefore both should be diligently sought.
(b) What critics overlook is that in 1 Cor. 14 Paul is addressing the specific situation in which believers are speaking in uninterpreted tongues in public worship services at which outsiders are present who are not ready for such unintelligible Spirit manifestations. But Paul encourages speaking in uninterpreted tongues in private prayer sessions (1 Cor. 14:28; cp. 14:4) and in believers-only public meetings (e. g. Acts 19:6).
(c) Believers who dismiss tongues are pointless are in danger of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit by implying that some of His gifts are irrelevant and not needed.
I would not be a Christian today, were it not for a mind-bending experience of Spirit baptism at age 16. See my Life Journey thread in the site's Introduction section. If tongues were not important, why does Paul celebrate the fact that he speaks in tongues more than everyone else (14:18)?

(3) Point (1) is not refuted by the false claim based on 12:29-30) that that the gift of tongues is not divinely intended by everyone.
(a) Paul insists that we "can all prophesy one by one (14:31)." Yet the gift of prophesy is included in the gift list cited by critics to support their claim that these gifts are not intended for everyone. So what Paul is instead teaching is this: Look around you: not everyone actually exercises their prophetic potential, but I want all believers to do so.

(4) In 3 of the 4 descriptions of receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts, they demonstrate this by speaking in tongues (2:1-18; 10:44-47; 19:1-6). In the 4th case, tongues are not mentioned, but the experience is so dramatic that Simon the Magician offers Peter money to bestow on him the same power to impart the experience of the Spirit (8:19-20). So it is not unreasonable to presume that the Samaritan converts also spoke in tongues when they received their Spirit baptism. This well-established pattern doesn't mean speaking in tongues is required for Spirit baptism, but it is further evidence that the gift of tongues should be diligently sought (12:31; 14:1).

(5) The tongues in contemporary languages in Acts 2 is NOT normative for later manifestations of this gift. That eruption is identified as prophecy (2:17-18 citing Joel 2:28), but tongues is subsequently distinguished from prophecy (19:5-6; 1 Cor 12 and 14). The tongues in Acts 10:44-47 and 19:1-6 are neither understood nor interpreted. In Greco-Roman parallels speaking in tongues (Greek: "glossai") is understood as ecstatic gibberish that needs a prophet for interpretation. Paul prefers to view this non-human gibberish as angelic language (1 Cor 13:1) and labels tongues speakers as "zealots of spirits (14:12)," a phrase that means "zealots of angels (see Heb 1:7)." Jews in Paul's day embraced the possibility of interpreting angelic languages (e. g. Testament of Job and famous first century Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai).

If Paul who said no one matters ...... said it ... that must be the end of the discussion.

-sigh-
 

Fenuay

Active member
I have been used at times, via the power of the name of Jesus Christ.

I can speak in unknown tongues at will also.

The Spirit is subject to the prophet.

It is nice to be led and used of the Spirit of God.

Try it.
I can speak at will in gibberish as well. It's easy. Much easier than taking the time to learn an actual "tongue".
 

Fenuay

Active member
If it good enough for the Acts church, it is god enough for me.

I feel sorry for folks that have not spoke in or practice tongues.

It is like having no interaction with God on a daily basis.
On the contrary.... I speak to God all through the day with my mouth and with my heart. I can speak to him in a foreign tongue or in my own tongue. However just like all human beings I feel more passion when using my mother tongue. Can you show me in the Bible where someone spoke in a "tongue" that was not able to be translated or heard in an existing language?
 
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