Baptism; After Salvation

Hark

Well-known member
It is clear from your response that no one has yet found the imaginary relative pronoun that some read into Mark 16:16 in order to misinterpret it.
Translating the message in English, can result in missing the message, especially when you are insisting proper modern day English grammar to the Greek..
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Your latest question is a tacit admission that you were unable to find a relative pronoun in verse sixteen in search of an antecedent. Without that imaginary pronoun which you are trying to read into the text there is no scriptural basis for excluding belief in the promise that baptism into Christ saves from the entire correct body of what is to be believed about Christ.

On the other hand, there is nothing in believing the promise that baptism into Christ saves which excludes anything in verse fourteen from the correct body of that which is to be believed about Christ.

Yes.

The participles believed and baptized tell us of a category or define a set of people who will be saved. The Apostles and disciples who were already baptized and believed are not excluded from that category or set of people who will be saved, that is, they are not excluded from that promise.

For that reason and because the passage does not say, "the one who shall believe and who shall be baptized shall be saved," your assertions and conclusions regarding none have been saved, the timing, and signs is not correct.

According to the text rather than someone's imagination what is the nominative which does now save you? Answer: baptism. What is the passive object being saved? Answer: you.

The parenthetical thought you refer to then refers to the acting nominative, baptism, rather than the passive object, you.

The misunderstanding of Paul previously referred to is your misunderstanding of Paul.

Your interpretation of John 3 ignores the context, baptism. It is even more self evident if a person reads John 1-4.

You're almost there, almost at a right understanding. God very often works through people. This is especially true of the proclamation of the Gospel in word and sacrament.

That is a non clarification of the text under discussion, but it is a nice story.

God put His work in this regard is the hands of men beginning with John the baptist. Baptism is from God and it accomplishes his will just as the gospel preached through men accomplishes His will.

I hope you will read the section above regarding category and set in Mark 16:16. This is because the only one saying God cannot save without baptism is you based upon your misunderstanding of that passage and Scripture in general.

This is a constant error. In the future, when he posts scripture I'll ask him to show the context. If that doesn't work, his refusal will constitute what we already know, it's all about eisegesis.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
After we believe and are saved, we are now his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works; obey Christ.
It should be completely uncontroversial that we are saved "through faith" as Ephesians 2:89 stipulate. And by identical reasoning it should be completely uncontroversial that we are saved "in baptism" Colossians 2:12. The same apostle affirmed both truths. But by affirming the one and denying the other you've created a very big problem.

"Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."" - John 6:28-29 ESV​

Jesus said those who would be saved are performing a good work by believing on him for salvation. By cleverly designing the argument that you have laid out above, you've made saving faith both the chicken and the egg. The problem is it can't be both.
 

JonHawk

Active member

Baptism; After Salvation

Believers
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

John 20:31 but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
"I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel." Ex 39:7

But you have an
anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1 John 2:20

Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, His child Forever I am.

 
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JonHawk

Active member
“For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory." Isaiah 66:18
"I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I the Lord am the Holy One in Israel." Ex 39:7

But you have an
anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 1 John 2:20

Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, His child Forever I am.
 
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