Baptism; After Salvation

JonHawk

Well-known member
You unequivocally stated that there is no indwelling of the Spirit in scripture. No need to search through your barrage of posts, just scroll down, I'll highlight it for you.
God did not give us an unbelieving fearful spirit, but a spirit of power and of love and sound judgment. 2 Tim 1:7
Do you? You told us that if you had enough faith in water baptism it could save, but you won't know until it's too late.
Edit personal attacks
Well my Greek scholarly friend, it helps if the scales are removed from your eyes.

But you will see me. Because I live, you also will live and you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. John 14:18-20
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
What's that amounts to is believing in the One He sent. You know the word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all— Acts 10:36

According to your wishy washy mindset by water ritual.
Mod note:
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You have NO unspoken right to speak in a perverted, offensive, profane, foul, or blasphemous manner. This is a Christian website, and you may not post words in mockery of Christian beliefs or terms offensive in descriptions of our Lord God. You may certainly challenge Christian teaching but do so respectfully.

Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, through Christ. Coming to Him as to a living stone...1 Peter 2:4-6
that was written to those who were already water baptized
“I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours." John 17:9
He and all those who were given to him were water baptized
You're not saved because you think you might be in the faith, you're saved because it's guaranteed by God's Spirit.
Salvation is guaranteed to those who endure to the end...we are saved by grace through faith...therefor one must continue in faith by obeying the commands of the one who is saving them.
For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. 2 Cor 1
Yes but the spirit can be quenched...1 Thess 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Heb 10:29
which is what you are doing...
Me and you both deny water baptism saves from sin.
Sorry, you believe baptism is for show...I believe it is a command from God. You are trying to twist my words as you do the scripture...
I never said one is saved by water baptism. Peter is the one who said it. Jesus said he who endures to the end shall be saved...your argument is with Jesus...Water baptism is an act of faith on the road to salvation.
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
By this, we know that baptism alone is not salvation.
But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. Matthew 5:37
Mod note.

Comment removed for language violation

I said I did not say baptism saves anyone...It was Peter who said it...Your argument is with Peter.
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. John 15:19
Language violation
Leave your seared conscience out of this.
Salvation is guaranteed to those who endure to the end...

24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it
Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
By this, we know that baptism alone is not salvation.
By this we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 1 John 4:13
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 1 John 5:11
And one must abide in his son through obedience to the word and endure to the end...
It's called regeneration, you know, the very thing you claim to have obtained in your water baptism.
I never said that either...it was Paul who said it..
Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. Rom 5:1-5
So you see two different things Baptism is a washing which is different from the giving of the HS...The command to be water baptized is something a believer must obey and believe that his sins are washed away...The HS only God can give...
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Gal 4
This does not help Your argument. Because it does not nullify being born of water as Jesus commanded.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
I never said that either...it was Paul who said it..

And one must abide in his son through obedience to the word and endure to the end...
Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom 1
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom 1
So who were you obeying when you misrepresented my words? You are posting one thing and doing the opposite...
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom 1
How does that passage relate to
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
This does not help your argument ...one must still endure and not fall...
Are you denying that you cherry-picked my post and used my words out of context? You deliberately did it many times...that shows you have no conscience..
By what? We know we live in him because we obey him...if you disobey him you are not living in him...Do you think you are living in him when you misrepresent my words?
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
Newbirth said:
therefore it is veiled to you If by divine you mean God then Christ is not God...
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Matt 27:51
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23

Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the divine Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1

__________________________________________________________________________________________
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit...2 Corinthians 3:16-17
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
Newbirth said:
therefore it is veiled to you If by divine you mean God then Christ is not God...
JonHawk said:
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Matt 27:51
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23

Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim the light of salvation to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the divine Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1
When you remove the beam in yours maybe you can help with the scales
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
But Christ is not God... Christ is the son of God...I can do this all day...Jesus said he is the son of God you are telling him he is God...
Matthew 27:43
He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Matthew 16:16
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23
Jesus is a high priest over the house of God...it does not say Jesus is God
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16
This does not say Jesus is God...
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23
God cannot die, that should be a clue...Are you implying that God died and was raised from the dead?
Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1
There you have it ... through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead:...It appears you are not reading what you are posting...
____But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit...2 Corinthians 3:16-17
You just proved that your veil is not taken away...Everything you posted shows Jesus to be the Son of God...So why are you arguing that Jesus is God?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
Newbirth said:
therefore it is veiled to you If by divine you mean God then Christ is not God...
JonHawk said:
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Matt 27:51
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23

Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim the light of salvation to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the divine Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1
Newbirth said:
When you remove the beam in yours maybe you can help with the scales
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17
You just proved that your veil is not taken away...Everything you posted shows Jesus to be the Son of God...So why are you arguing that Jesus is God?
Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. John 14:9 "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
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God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth; John 4:24
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
I posted the scripture where Jesus says he is the son of God, you are still telling Jesus he is God.
JonHawk said:
Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1

Do you believe what you post or not?
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23

Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim the light of salvation to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the divine Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17

Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. John 14:9 "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
___________________________________________________
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth; John 4:24
Nothing here says Jesus is God, in fact, you posted that Jesus is the son of God...do you not believe what you post? Get over it.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It was one of several direct quotes such as, "Christ is not God" why bother to deny it when you're bound to post it again:
Newbirth said:
therefore it is veiled to you If by divine you mean God then Christ is not God...
JonHawk said:
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. Matt 27:51
Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great Priest over the house of God, Heb 10:19-23

Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain grace to help at the right time. Heb 4:16

Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim the light of salvation to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.” Acts 26:21-23

Who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the divine Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 1
Newbirth said:
When you remove the beam in yours maybe you can help with the scales
But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:16-17
Newbirth said:
You just proved that your veil is not taken away...Everything you posted shows Jesus to be the Son of God...So why are you arguing that Jesus is God?
Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. John 14:9 "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30 John 4:24
Nothing here says Jesus is God, in fact, you posted that Jesus is the son of God...do you not believe what you post?
Yes, I have been telling you all along that Jesus is God the Son, Through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Eph 2
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Yes, I have been telling you all along that Jesus is God the Son,
There is no mention of a "God the Son" in scripture...Again you are making false assertions.
Through Him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Eph 2
This is the context of the passage...Eph 2
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Mod comment. Lose this expression regarding how one interprets the scriptures.


Also read rule 12.


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JonHawk

Well-known member
Pay attention, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and His name will be called Immanuel, God with us.
Again when God brings His Son into the world, He says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Heb 1:8
I already told you the only thing violated is your guilty conscience. You're not the first to get bent out of shape over Christ's divinity.

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Pay attention, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and His name will be called Immanuel, God with us.
So in your mind, the virgin is the mother of God?
Again when God brings His Son into the world, He says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Heb 1:8
Seriously guy? Are you this blind? Read the red slowly...How many gods do you have? If you believe God is bringing another God into the world that makes two Gods. If that is how you understand the scripture then you are a polytheist...
I already told you the only thing violated is your guilty conscience.
You can tell me anything but that does not mean what you say is true. You have to explain how God is bringing another God into the world...when there is only one God.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Pay attention, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and His name will be called Immanuel, God with us.

Again when God brings His Son into the world, He says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom. Heb 1:8

I already told you the only thing violated is your guilty conscience. You're not the first to get bent out of shape over Christ's divinity.

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10
So in your mind, the virgin is the mother of God?
Whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother. Mark 3:33-35
Seriously guy? Are you this blind? Read the red slowly...How many gods do you have? If you believe God is bringing another God into the world that makes two Gods. If that is how you understand the scripture then you are a polytheist...
I know, this is mind-boggling to you and there is also a Holy Spirit and the three are one.
You can tell me anything but that does not mean what you say is true. You have to explain how God is bringing another God into the world...when there is only one God.
What is it that you chant when you perform your water ritual, oh yes, "I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
You're not the first to get bent out of shape over Christ's divinity.
I am not getting bent over anything...You are the one who is bent over three Gods.
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” John 10
If you had continued to read you would have known what Jesus himself actually said...36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

He did not say because I am God...and there are others who testify that is what he said...
Matthew 27:40
And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
Matthew 27:43
He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I know, this is mind-boggling to you and there is also a Holy Spirit and the three are one.
God does not do mind-boggling...You are preaching a gospel that the apostles did not preach.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
 
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