Baptism; After Salvation

Newbirth

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
God made known to them His plan to bless the nations; the glorious riches of this mystery is the indwelling of Christ, the Anointed in you! Col 1:27

God has always known who his chosen ones would be. He grafted them through his own Son, so his Son would be the first of many brethren. Rom 8:29
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith; Col 2
But you have received the Messiah’s anointing through the Spirit and all of you know the truth.
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) 1 John 2:20-22

In this [union and fellowship with Him], we are complete, so that we may have confidence, assurance, boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

This is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 3:24


Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; John 14:11

“I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. 19 After a little while, the world no longer is going to see Me, but you are going to see Me; because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I in you. John 14
You are posting passages that prove Jesus is not GOD ... While you teach Jesus is his own father, God...
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
God made known to them His plan to bless the nations; the glorious riches of this mystery is the indwelling of Christ, the Anointed in you! Col 1:27

God has always known who his chosen ones would be. He grafted them through his own Son, so his Son would be the first of many brethren. Rom 8:29
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith; Col 2
But you have received the Messiah’s anointing through the Spirit and all of you know the truth.
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed) 1 John 2:20-22

In this [union and fellowship with Him], we are complete, so that we may have confidence, assurance, boldness in the day of judgment, because as He is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

This is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. 1 John 3:24

Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; John 14:11

“I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. 19 After a little while, the world no longer is going to see Me, but you are going to see Me; because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I in you. John 14
You are posting passages that prove Jesus is not GOD ... While you teach Jesus is his own father, God...
Your doctrine of demons is so absurd that you masquerade that God granted you his nature but somehow excluded Christ who knew no sin, who has always been one with the Father. "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
If the divine nature you are referring to isn't Christ, you better get used to disappointment. And then I will say to them plainly, 'I never knew you...'

But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth; and no lie is of the truth;
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1 John 2:20-23

Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; John 14:11

“I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you. 19 After a little while, the world no longer is going to see Me, but you are going to see Me; because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I in you. John 14
Newbirth said:
You are posting passages that prove Jesus is not GOD ... While you teach Jesus is his own father, God...
Your doctrine of demons is so absurd that you masquerade that God granted you his nature but somehow excluded Christ who knew no sin, who has always been one with the Father. "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
JonHawk said:

Your doctrine of demons is so absurd that you masquerade that God granted you his nature but somehow excluded Christ who knew no sin, who has always been one with the Father. "I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
Are you denying that believers are partakers of the divine nature...?
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I and the father are one does not mean Jesus is God...Unless you are denying that Jesus is the son of God...
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Are you denying that believers are partakers of the divine nature...?
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5
And everyone you have given Me will see My glory because you loved me before the world was created. John 17:24
I and the father are one does not mean Jesus is God...Unless you are denying that Jesus is the son of God...
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end; Isaiah 9:6-7

And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end. Luke 1:31-33
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5
And everyone you have given Me will see My glory because you loved me before the world was created. John 17:24

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end; Isaiah 9:6-7

And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end. Luke 1:31-33
Gou are funny...God is not a child nor was he born... Using a passage like that to show Jesus is God is absurd. Using a passage where Jesus says God is his father is not proof that Jesus is God...It is proof that Jesus is the son of God.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5
And everyone you have given Me will see My glory because you loved Me before the world was created. John 17:24

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end; Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:31-33
Gou are funny...God is not a child nor was he born... Using a passage like that to show Jesus is God is absurd. Using a passage where Jesus says God is his father is not proof that Jesus is God...It is proof that Jesus is the son of God.
Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; And will not see the glory of the Lord. Isaiah 26:10
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5
And everyone you have given Me will see My glory because you loved me before the world was created. John 17:24

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end; Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:31-33

Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; And will not see the glory of the Lord. Isaiah 26:10
Who did Isaiah see? You are speaking about two different persons.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed. John 17:5
And everyone you have given Me will see My glory because you loved me before the world was created. John 17:24

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end; Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:31-33

Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness; And will not see the glory of the Lord. Isaiah 26:10
Who did Isaiah see? You are speaking about two different persons.
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and the Last.' Isaiah 44:6

Who did John see?
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not fear; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Rev 1
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and the Last.' Isaiah 44:6
Two persons here...(1) the Lord, the King of Israel....(2) his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts.
Who did John see?
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not fear; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Rev 1
You do know that God cannot die right? Therefore the first and the last is not God.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Who did John see?
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not fear; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Rev 1
Two persons here...(1) the Lord, the King of Israel....(2) his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts.
(1) Nathanael answered, "You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.” John 1:49
(2) In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isaiah 45:25
The Lord of hosts is addressed as the “Word of God.” And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” Rev 19:16
You do know that God cannot die right? Therefore the first and the last is not God.
You do know that He is not the God of the dead but of the living.

The Living Stone and a Chosen People
Now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
Coming to Him as to a Living Stone chosen by God.
“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, 1 Peter 2:3-6

I chose you for Myself and I now send you to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and inheritance among them that are sanctified by living faith in Me. Acts 26:17-19
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Who did John see?
His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. 17 And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not fear; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death. Rev 1

(1) Nathanael answered, "You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel.” John 1:49
(2) In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isaiah 45:25
The Lord of hosts is addressed as “Word of God.” And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” Rev 19:16
It does not say Jesus is God, does it? Read your post carefully...Jesus is the son of God...
You do know that He is not the God of the dead but of the living.
Jesus was referring to his father...
The Living Stone and a Chosen People
Now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
Coming to Him as to a Living Stone chosen by God.
“See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, 1 Peter 2:3-6
Do you even understand that passage? Jesus is the stone that God laid in Zion.
I chose you for Myself and I now send you to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and inheritance among them that are sanctified by living faith in Me. Acts 26:17-19
Sorry there is no mention of "living" faith in the Greek text
That is adding to the scripture.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I never said or implied that we are God.

Where does the scripture say that?

You are building a strawman. I never said, "our divine nature" Here is what Peter says...
2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

No passage in the scripture says Jesus is both God and Man.
Like I CORRETLY told you before " Only God " has Divine nature and we only have " human nature "! Jesus is God-Man as per John 1:1+14 & 8:58 and Heb.1:6+8! Thus ONLY He has those 2 Natures as so stated in ( Philippians 2:6-7 )! You said we have that Divine Nature ( making us out to be God ), when we partake in it in 2 Peter 1:4! So FYI again partaking in GOD's Nature never makes it your nature! It is still His ( God's ) nature, which is why He has to dwell in born again peoples mortal temples/bodies as per 1 Cor.6:19 in order for them to PARTAKE in His Divine Nature ( which is NOT ours )! If it were our Divine Nature then there would be NO need of Him dwelling in our Mortal bodies when we become born again! Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) of 2 Peter 1:4! When He has us PARTAKE in His Nature ( that ONLY God has ), it does not make it our nature or else we would be God-Man, just like Jesus Christ is as per John 1:1+14!
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
Nope that is false... John 1:1 & 8:58 and Heb.1:6+8 do not prove Jesus is God. The scripture is clear, God is the father of Jesus. Are you saying that Jesus is his own father?
Then you are calling God the Father a LIAR in Heb.1:6+8 because angels will WORSHIP Only God and His Father called Him ( His Son Jesus Christ ) " O God " in verse 8! Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that He is but a man only as JW's say by changing the Original wording of John 1:1 " the Logos was God " to " the Logos was a god "! FYI, that breaks one of the 10 Commandments ( #3 ) when you accept our Savior as a god instead of God! ----------------- ( #3 ) ----------------

Exodus 20:3.​

New International Version​

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Exodus 20:3 Or besides
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
It does not say Jesus is God, does it? Read your post carefully...Jesus is the son of God...Jesus was referring to his father...
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. John 5:21
Do you even understand that passage? Jesus is the stone that God laid in Zion.
Yes, believers understand that Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant:
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, Heb 12

And He shall be for a Sanctuary;
Here I am with the children the Lord has given me to be signs and wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts who dwells on Mount Zion.
Isaiah 8:14-20

“The Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob (Israel) who turn from transgression, says the Lord.
“As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord. Isaiah 59:19-21
Sorry there is no mention of "living" faith in the Greek That is adding to the scripture.

The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence. But we will bless the Lord From this time forth and forevermore. Ps 115:17-18
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Like I CORRETLY told you before " Only God " has Divine nature and we only have " human nature "!
So you are saying that believers are not partakers of God's divine nature?
Jesus is God-Man as per John 1:1+14 & 8:58 and Heb.1:6+8!
There is no mention of a God-man in the scripture... That is Greek mythology Hercules perhaps.
Thus ONLY He has those 2 Natures as so stated in ( Philippians 2:6-7 )!
So does Hercules
You said we have that Divine Nature ( making us out to be God ), when we partake in it in 2 Peter 1:4!
I never said it makes us God. We are men made in the image and likeness of God.
So FYI again partaking in GOD's Nature never makes it your nature!
I never said it is my nature. I said it is the divine nature.
It is still His ( God's ) nature, which is why He has to dwell in born again peoples mortal temples/bodies as per 1 Cor.6:19 in order for them to PARTAKE in His Divine Nature ( which is NOT ours )!
I never said it was ours, If it was ours then we wouldn't be partakers, would we?
If it were our Divine Nature then there would be NO need of Him dwelling in our Mortal bodies when we become born again!
That is why you cannot quote me saying it is our divine nature. You built your own strawman and now you are burning it.
Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) of 2 Peter 1:4!
You keep closing the case and reopening it because you can't even convince yourself.
When He has us PARTAKE in His Nature ( that ONLY God has ), it does not make it our nature
So show me where I said it makes it our nature.
or else we would be God-Man, just like Jesus Christ is as per John 1:1+14!
There is no mention of a God Man in the scripture...but we are commanded to be conformed to the image of Christ...
Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So God wants us to be exactly like Jesus... This means if Jesus is a God-Man then we must also be God Men.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Then you are calling God the Father a LIAR in Heb.1:6+8 because angels will WORSHIP Only God and His Father called Him ( His Son Jesus Christ ) " O God " in verse 8!
How does this make any sense? You are saying that God has a father. How many Gods do you really have if one God is calling another God,God?
Case closed on your Twisted view ( 2 Peter 3:16 ) that He is but a man only as JW's say by changing the Original wording of John 1:1 " the Logos was God " to " the Logos was a god "! FYI, that breaks one of the 10 Commandments ( #3 ) when you accept our Savior as a god instead of God! ----------------- ( #3 ) ----------------
But YOU just showed me two Gods...Therefore you have two Gods. And your God has a God if he calls another O God.

Exodus 20:3.​

New International Version​

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Exodus 20:3 Or besides
Yet you have other Gods. In fact you have two other gods besides God the Father.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. John 5:21

Yes, believers understand that Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant: But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, Heb 12

And He shall be for a Sanctuary...Here I am with the children the Lord has given me to be signs and wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts who dwells on Mount Zion. Isaiah 8:14-20

“The Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob (Israel) who turn from transgression, says the Lord. “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord. Isaiah 59:19-21 The dead do not praise the Lord, Nor any who go down into silence. But we will bless the Lord From this time forth and forevermore. Ps 115:17-18
@rod.ney
So you are saying that believers are not partakers of God's divine nature?
Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Rom 8:9
@rod.ney
...we are commanded to be conformed to the image of Christ... Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Spiritual Fullness in Christ
6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form; Col 2
evasion...Two persons here...
Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old nature with its practices 10 and have put on the new nature, which is renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 11 Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Col 3
 
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