Which was refuted in post 1262 and post 1277.
Baptism; After Salvation
- Thread starter Saxon
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Which was refuted in post 1262 and post 1277.
You have yet to address post 1263 that shows obedience to water baptism is necessary to keep from sinning/serving sin unto death is necessary to have remission of sins, obedience is necessary to working righteousness and be accepted with God. You try and have men saved by belief only PRIOR to men obeying and working righteousness which is not possible. A NT belief INCLUDES obedience being water baptism:
Acts 10:43-------------------believe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
Acts 2:38--------------------baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
Since there is just one way to be saved/sin remitted no alternatives, then NT belief MUST include water baptism. "Believed" of Acts 10:44 includes being baptized per verse 41. Verse 41 "Then they that gladly received his words were baptized' with the logical conclusion rejecting water baptism is to reject the gospel words. Cornelius, as the Jews in Acts 2, was saved by gladly receiving the gospel words by obeying the command to be baptized for had he rejected being water baptism would be the same as rejecting the gospel words.
The Gentiles were obedient before their baptism because they were already "given" the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 5:32).
JonHawk
Well-known member
But the word which they heard did not profit them; Heb 4:2[URL='https://forums.carm.org/goto/post?id=792105' said:
If not you’re a mamzer and not a son. (Heb 12:8, Acts 7:51)
These are the people who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. Jude 1:19
It is not as though God broke His promise, for not all are of Israel, born of God. Rom 9:4-8
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The Samaritans (Acts 8) are another example of the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
The Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:16).
This is also refers to the fact that the Holy Spirit fell on them (Acts 10:44), the Holy Spirit was received (Acts 10:47), and the Holy Spirit was given to them (Acts 11:17; 15:8).
Since the Samaritans would receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:15; cf. v.17), and the Holy Spirit would fall on them (Acts 8:16), as well as the Holy Spirit was given to them (Acts 8:18) all demonstrate that they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
The Samaritans believed and were baptized but still did not receive the Spirit. Acts 8:12,16
Acts 8:12 says nothing about baptism with the HS.....you are assuming that baptism into the text. The Samaritans were first water baptized then later received the gift of the HS when Apostles came there. Verse 16 says of the Samaritans "(For as yet he (Holy Ghost) was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)" The baptism 'in the name of the Lord' is water baptism of the great commission (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48). Nowhere is baptism with the HS said to be in the name of the Lord, was never commanded to anyone, is never said to save/remit sins.
The one baptism of the great commission is water baptism that has been commanded to all men and administered by disciples as it was with those in Samaria, those Jews in Acts 2, the eunuch and Cornelius and all conversions in Acts.
3 of the words used of the Holy Spirit in reference to the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts 10 are used in Acts 8. You ignored this point because it refutes your position.
Being baptized with the Holy Spirit includes the others.
Baptism with the HS was a prophecy of Joel that was fulfilled some 2000 years ago making that baptism obsolete. Those in Acts 2 were not baptized with the HS. In Acts 8 the Spirit, instead of "spirit baptizing the eunuch, sent for Phillip to teach and water baptize the eunuch for baptism with the HS has nothing to do with a person's salvation.
Acts 10 and 11 gives the purpose for the Gentiles being baptized with the HS and the purpose had nothing to do with saving the Gentiles. The Jews did not think salvation was to go to the Gentiles, hence God gave Peter a vision and baptized the Gentiles with the HS and these two events were to prove to the Jew salvation was to go to the Gentiles. Upon Peter telling the Jews in Jerusalem of these two events (Acts 11) ...."When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." This should have put an end to the Jews' objections about the Gentiles but it did not for in Acts 15 the Jews were still trying to bind circumcision upon the Gentiles falsely claiming the Gentiles could not be saved without it, Paul had to withstand Peter to the face (Gal 2:11-12).
Yes, they were (Acts 2:4; cf. Acts 1:5).
Nothing in the context says the Samaritans were baptized with the HS, only the Lord baptized with the HS (Mt 3:11). The baptism of Acts 8:12 had to be water baptism for none had received the HS at that time in v12. Again, the phrase "baptized in the name of the Lord" is only associated with water baptism (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48)
Acts 1:1-5 only the Apostles were promised the HS and in Acts 2 it was only the Apostles the HS fell upon.
Incorrect.
- Baptism; After Salvation
And you actually thought that would work eh? And you actually though what you wrote above is an argument, eh?
forums.carm.org
The whole Bible (all 66 books) is true.
The context of Acts 1:1-5 is Christ speaking to His Apostles and only promising them.
Another thing from the context, the Apostles were from Galilee (Acts 1:11). Galiliee was a long distance from Jerusalem relative to their mode of transportation at that time. And in Acts 2:7 the HS fell upon those who spoke Galilaeans. To CLAIM the HS fell upon a large multitude of people would mean the that multitude all came from Galilee and the Spirit fell upon none from Jerusalem or elsewhere other than Galilee.
Incorrect.
Luke 24:33 includes the others as well and they would all be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:49).
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
What precedes Romans 6 and relates to it is Romans 5 and what follows is Romans 8.
Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (NASB).
Acts 10:44 teaches the Holy Spirit was "poured out" on the Gentiles before they were water baptized (Acts 10:48).
All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (NASB)
New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (NIDNTT): God's love is "poured out" in the hearts of believers (Rom. 5:5), and this has been done by the bestowal of the Holy Spirit who is, several times said, following Joel 2:28-29, to have been "poured" upon those who receive Christ (Acts 2:17-18, 33; 10:45; Tit. 3:6) (2:855, Pour, R.T. France).
Romans 8:23
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. (NASB)
BDAG (3rd Edition): Since we possess the first fruits of the Spirit, i.e. as much of the Spirit has been poured out so far and a foretaste of things to come Ro 8:23...birth-certificate also suits the context of Ro 8:23 (aparchē, page 98).