Baptism and early Jewish believers

JonHawk

Well-known member
despite the Nation being cut off at that time due to unbelief
there is always a Remnant of believers from that nation - by grace thru faith
the Kingdom promises to Israel remain and will be future fulfilled, as promised
For Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, Lord, is the kingdom; You are exalted as head over all. 2 Chron 29:11
Messiah returns to Earth when Israel collectively as a nation have repented and call on Him to do so
"For I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD.'" Matt. 23
For the grave cannot praise you, The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today;
parents tell their children about your faithfulness.
The Lord saved me, and we will sing a new song
all the days of our lives in the temple of the Lord. Isa 38:19-20
His glory is great in Your salvation; Ps 20:6
Yes, I have seen You in Your Temple. I have seen Your power and glory. Ps 63:2

To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever! Rev 5:9-13
 
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JonHawk

Well-known member
American Gothic said:
despite the Nation being cut off at that time due to unbelief
there is always a Remnant of believers from that nation - by grace thru faith
the Kingdom promises to Israel remain and will be future fulfilled, as promised
For Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, Lord, is the kingdom; You are exalted as head over all. *1 Chron 29:11
American Gothic said:
Messiah returns to Earth when Israel collectively as a nation have repented and call on Him to do so
"For I tell you, you will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD.'" Matt. 23
For the grave cannot praise you, The living, the living—they praise you, as I am doing today;
parents tell their children about your faithfulness.
The Lord saved me, and we will sing a new song
all the days of our lives in the temple of the Lord. Isa 38:19-20
His glory is great in Your salvation; Ps 20:6
Yes, I have seen You in Your Temple. I have seen Your power and glory. Ps 63:2

To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever! Rev 5:9-13
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
The idea that they are to receive a specific punishment for crucifying the messiah is made up out of thin air though.
is being artificially inserted in here.
isn't connecting relevant Scripture from various places within it together what it's all about?
in the way Revelation takes prophecies scattered in the OT and puts them in a chronology...
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
For Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,

oh kool I like music, we need more of that on CARM
wish God would remove the blinders already so we can have some decent choons in Heaven and the Kingdom age

"For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

“Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord. “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem. Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for He is aroused from His holy habitation!” Zechariah 2
brap brap
 
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Rejoran

Active member
isn't connecting relevant Scripture from various places within it together what it's all about?
in the way Revelation takes prophecies scattered in the OT and puts them in a chronology...
At times, but not arbitrarily or of random choice. There needs to be something in the text itself connecting the two. Jesus did not say that the destruction of Jerusalem would be the punishment for crucifying him, nor did Peter. Neither of them connected the two together. You are connecting the two together. Jesus even said
Matthew 26:24-25 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.” [25] Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, “Surely you don't mean me, Rabbi?” Jesus answered, “You have said so.”

But did not speak of his consequences.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
oh kool I like music, we need more of that on CARM
wish God would remove the blinders already so we can have some decent choons in Heaven and the Kingdom age

“Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the Lord. “Many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem. Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord, for He is aroused from His holy habitation!” Zechariah 2
brap brap
Have some new wine it'll help your bloated stomach.

The nations will honor you, and all kings will praise your glory. Psalm 102:15
For God is my King from of old, Working salvation in the midst of the earth. Psalm 74:12
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Have some new wine it'll help your bloated stomach.
wine? more just a thimble of grape juice and a little piece of cracker?
now were talkin'
And the reason why you haven't heard anyone claim that regeneration occurred when they had the cracker and a sip of grape juice is because they
would add insult to injury by eating and drinking judgment on themselves, since they are without discernment of the body of believers in Christ.

Now that faith has come, we are all united in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29
 
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Martin23233

Active member
The idea that they are to receive a specific punishment for crucifying the messiah is made up out of thin air though. Peter never mentioned punishment in his speech. Save yourself from this perverse generation is a different statement then save yourself from the punishment this perverse generation will receive, and a different meaning. Yes, punishment generally comes with perversion and that is to be expected, but there was no punishment "specifically" spoken of for this group.

This is all be true without 70 AD. 70 AD does not need to exist for these passages to be true. The idea of a specific punishment for these people in 70 AD is being artificially inserted in here.

These two predictions of Jesus could in fact be related, good point. But any connection between these and what Peter preached to the crowd at Pentecost is something that you are "inferring" and reading into the text, because Peter didn't speak a word about punishment to these people in this speech. It is a gap that scripture does not say that you're filling in with your own idea, like saying Mary Magdalene was a harlot or a prostitute.
But did not scripture state on several occasions that the Jews rejected Jesus our Christ? ...and don't we all pretty much agree on the scripture that teaches about those that reject Christ are also rejected by Christ? I think that was the point being made above... along with a remnant of Jews being converted and accepting Christ..(as also shown in scripture)
 

Rejoran

Active member
But did not scripture state on several occasions that the Jews rejected Jesus our Christ? ...and don't we all pretty much agree on the scripture that teaches about those that reject Christ are also rejected by Christ? I think that was the point being made above... along with a remnant of Jews being converted and accepting Christ..(as also shown in scripture)
That much is true. It goes beyond this to claim that Peter was pronouncing upon them a specific punishment as in AD 70, because he didn't. In addition the fact that those 3000 did accept Jesus as both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and were subsequently baptized in Jesus's name for the forgiveness of sins, as Peter declared, then they were no longer in danger of being rejected by Christ.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
That much is true. It goes beyond this to claim that Peter was pronouncing upon them a specific punishment as in AD 70, because he didn't. In addition the fact that those 3000 did accept Jesus as both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36), and were subsequently baptized in Jesus's name for the forgiveness of sins, as Peter declared, then they were no longer in danger of being rejected by Christ.
God is the One who raised Christ from the dead, and He will give eternal life through Christ's Spirit that lives in you.
So then, brethren, if you rely on the old nature, you are going to die, but if you rely on the Spirit, you will live. Rom 8:11:13
 

Rejoran

Active member
God is the One who raised Christ from the dead, and He will give eternal life through Christ's Spirit that lives in you.
So then, brethren, if you rely on the old nature, you are going to die, but if you rely on the Spirit, you will live. Rom 8:11:13
Sorry. Pretty vague.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
God is the One who raised Christ from the dead, and He will give eternal life through Christ's Spirit that lives in you.
So then, brethren, if you rely on the old nature, you are going to die, but if you rely on the Spirit, you will live. Rom 8:11:13
Sorry. Pretty vague.
We all understand you're not too keen on the things of faith and start tweaking if you don't see water baptism in the passages.

Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8
 
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Rejoran

Active member
JonHawk said:
We all understand you're not too keen on the things of faith and start tweaking if you don't see water baptism in the passages.

Because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8
You're over the top.
It is conceivable that you're actually being vague.
Connect your statement
So then, brethren, if you rely on the old nature, you are going to die, but if you rely on the Spirit, you will live. Rom 8:11:13

With my previous post.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
You're over the top.
It is conceivable that you're actually being vague.
Connect your statement
So then, brethren, if you rely on the old nature, you are going to die, but if you rely on the Spirit, you will live. Rom 8:11:13
Whoever relies on the flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever relies on the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Gal 6:8
With my previous post.
That's just basic elementary principles, which is why John baptized for repentance instructing them to believe in Him who was to come after, Jesus, who would then baptize them with the Spirit.

For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
But did not scripture state on several occasions that the Jews rejected Jesus our Christ? ...and don't we all pretty much agree on the scripture that teaches about those that reject Christ are also rejected by Christ? I think that was the point being made above... along with a remnant of Jews being converted and accepting Christ..(as also shown in scripture)
the Messiah's people/Nation rejected Him, as was prophesied
not all individuals of that rejected Him
not all Gentiles in this age of Grace are accepting Him now, are they?
and yes, whoever rejects the Son is rejecting the Father who sent Him

I'm sorry, this is not enough for me to understand what you're saying. Would you please elaborate a little? Thank you.
couldn't Jewish Christians have insights/view on Scriptural nuances or events
that Gentiles might miss or possibly misunderstand?
 

Rejoran

Active member
the Messiah's people/Nation rejected Him, as was prophesied
not all individuals of that rejected Him
not all Gentiles in this age of Grace are accepting Him now, are they?
and yes, whoever rejects the Son is rejecting the Father who sent Him
Agreed. I don't see the connection between this and AD 70.
couldn't Jewish Christians have insights/view on Scriptural nuances or events
that Gentiles might miss or possibly misunderstand?
Yes but which view were you referring to as "just one view - one Jewish Christian view"?
Are you saying that this AD 70 theory is a Jewish/Christian view, and who is the Jewish/Christian proposing this view? Are you the Jewish/Christian, or are you getting this from a Jewish Christian?
 
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American Gothic

Well-known member
Are you saying that this AD 70 theory is a Jewish/Christian view, and who is the Jewish/Christian proposing this view? Are you the Jewish/Christian, or are you getting this from a Jewish Christian?
yes, it came from this ministry https://www.ariel.org/
not sure this Q&A are still up, I had saved it in the past

it might specifically be a Texan Jewish Christian view :)
shalom y'all http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ozlsCwnTla4/SXCbtxEBLZI/AAAAAAAAAb0/i6fTmSaCOFc/s320/fruchtenbaum.JPG
 
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