Baptism is a rite, not salvation !

robycop3

Active member
Remember, baptism is the public expression of one's committment to Jesus. It does NOT wash away one's sins !

If one is saved & dies unbaptized, that one is still saved. Jesus gave us the example of the repentant thief on the cross. However, one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, if at all possible. I, & many others, were EAGER to be baptized ASAP after salvation.

So, one's mind should be at ease if one is saved, but unable to be baptized for awhile, if at all. Sometimes, it's not possible for awhile if one is saved in wintertime & one's church has no indoor natatorium. Others may be in a landwhere there's no suitable place for baptism, or there's no one available to do it. Others may have a physical condition making it impossible for them to be immersed in water. But GOD knows whether baptism is possible or not.

But don't worry if you have a terminal illness, are saved, but are unable to be baptized for awhile. You're JUST-AS-SAVED if you die first. It's JESUS who does the saving, not the water or he who baptizes one.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I'm glad to know that baptism is such a non controversial subject. It must be, because you've completely dispatched the topic without citing a single passage of scripture containing the word baptism or not.
 

robycop3

Active member
Did you come to this view by reading passages that have the word baptism in it or some other word that refers to baptism?
The whole body of Scripture, but especially the incident of the repentant thief on the cross whom Jesus saved, although he couldn't possible be baptized, & whose death was imminent.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Remember, baptism is the public expression of one's committment to Jesus. It does NOT wash away one's sins !

If one is saved & dies unbaptized, that one is still saved. Jesus gave us the example of the repentant thief on the cross. However, one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, if at all possible. I, & many others, were EAGER to be baptized ASAP after salvation.

So, one's mind should be at ease if one is saved, but unable to be baptized for awhile, if at all. Sometimes, it's not possible for awhile if one is saved in wintertime & one's church has no indoor natatorium. Others may be in a landwhere there's no suitable place for baptism, or there's no one available to do it. Others may have a physical condition making it impossible for them to be immersed in water. But GOD knows whether baptism is possible or not.

But don't worry if you have a terminal illness, are saved, but are unable to be baptized for awhile. You're JUST-AS-SAVED if you die first. It's JESUS who does the saving, not the water or he who baptizes one.
"Baptism... does NOT wash away one's sins!"... Oh, I think you forgot to quote 1 Peter there: "Baptism, which corresponds to this [salvation via the ark], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Pet 3:21)
 

robycop3

Active member
"Baptism... does NOT wash away one's sins!"... Oh, I think you forgot to quote 1 Peter there: "Baptism, which corresponds to this [salvation via the ark], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Pet 3:21)
Again, I refer to the thief on the cross who couldn't be baptized. But one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, ASAP.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Again, I refer to the thief on the cross who couldn't be baptized. But one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, ASAP.
The thief had a baptism of desire. Baptism is the ordinary means by which a Christian is saved as it is the sacrament of faith.

Why should baptism occur after salvation (ASAP) if it doesn't do anything?
 

nan

Well-known member
"Baptism... does NOT wash away one's sins!"... Oh, I think you forgot to quote 1 Peter there: "Baptism, which corresponds to this [salvation via the ark], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ..." (1 Pet 3:21)

and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What do you use to remove dirt from the body? Water. This verse specifically says that we are not saved by water.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
The whole body of Scripture, but especially the incident of the repentant thief on the cross whom Jesus saved, although he couldn't possible be baptized, & whose death was imminent.
Well, the thief on the cross died 50 days before the advent of Christian baptism, so it's difficult to see how that could be germane.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What do you use to remove dirt from the body? Water. This verse specifically says that we are not saved by water.
On the contrary, the verse notes that baptism "now saves you" - that is precisely what is says, word for word - not as water cleaning a body but as a pledge to covenant, just like circumcision did. Water of itself does nothing but when it forms part of the ritual of baptism, which also includes faith, then it is efficacious.
 

UncleAbee

Member
Quotes from robycop3. My answers in red.

Remember, baptism is the public expression of one's committment to Jesus. It does NOT wash away one's sins ! - This is stated no where in the bible.

If one is saved & dies unbaptized, that one is still saved. Jesus gave us the example of the repentant thief on the cross. However, one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, if at all possible. I, & many others, were EAGER to be baptized ASAP after salvation. - I think this is a bad example to build doctrine on because of two reasons. 1) This is a "one off" example. This is not the normal example for people being saved or converting to Christianity post Jesus death. What I do see this as is an example that Jesus can save a person even in the 12th hour and in unnormal and unusual situations. I would not use this as the common pattern for salvation though. The majority of people will hear the gospel and have the opportunity to respond. 2) People using this excuse are never in that situation. All these "what ifs" make me laugh. What if I was on a plane and it was about to crash? What if I had no access to water? What if I was sick and couldn't get out the bed to get in the water? The person that brings this up is never in that situation. My answer is always "but I am talking to you hear & now & there is a baptismal pool right down the hall."

So, one's mind should be at ease if one is saved, but unable to be baptized for awhile, if at all. Sometimes, it's not possible for awhile if one is saved in wintertime & one's church has no indoor natatorium. Others may be in a land where there's no suitable place for baptism, or there's no one available to do it. Others may have a physical condition making it impossible for them to be immersed in water. But GOD knows whether baptism is possible or not.
- I would call all these unusual situations. The majority of people will have access to a baptismal pool.

But don't worry if you have a terminal illness, are saved, but are unable to be baptized for awhile. You're JUST-AS-SAVED if you die first. It's JESUS who does the saving, not the water or he who baptizes one. - Again unusual and out of the norm situations. Jesus will make allowances for these situations. What the normal person needs to do is hear the gospel, believe it, repent, and be baptized towards salvation.
 

nan

Well-known member
On the contrary, the verse notes that baptism "now saves you" - that is precisely what is says, word for word - not as water cleaning a body but as a pledge to covenant, just like circumcision did. Water of itself does nothing but when it forms part of the ritual of baptism, which also includes faith, then it is efficacious.
First Peter 3:20 says eight people were kept from the flood waters by the ark. He goes on to say [vs 21] we are saved, (not by the water which washes dirt from the body, but by the answer of a clean conscience toward God), made good by the resurrection of Christ Jesus.

The blood of Jesus saves us. Not water.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
First Peter 3:20 says eight people were kept from the flood waters by the ark. He goes on to say [vs 21] we are saved, (not by the water which washes dirt from the body, but by the answer of a clean conscience toward God), made good by the resurrection of Christ Jesus.

The blood of Jesus saves us. Not water.
He is using the ark and going through water as an analogy with baptism, where one also goes through water. Obviously, it's not the water that saves you but the ritual of baptism (which is the ritual of entrance into the people of God) does involve water.
 

robycop3

Active member
The thief had a baptism of desire. Baptism is the ordinary means by which a Christian is saved as it is the sacrament of faith.

Why should baptism occur after salvation (ASAP) if it doesn't do anything?
Baptize an unsaved person & the only result is a wet sinner.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Baptize an unsaved person & the only result is a wet sinner.
Baptism is a ritual of faith: if those who are baptised don't have faith, then baptism is pointless. However, baptism is the means which Christ established to bring people (ordinarily) into his covenant.
 

UncleAbee

Member
First Peter 3:20 says eight people were kept from the flood waters by the ark. He goes on to say [vs 21] we are saved, (not by the water which washes dirt from the body, but by the answer of a clean conscience toward God), made good by the resurrection of Christ Jesus.

The blood of Jesus saves us. Not water.
I disagree. The passage clearly says "baptism now saves you." That is the object of the passage. The words that follow explain the passage "baptism now saves you" works. We are saved in the waters of baptism ..... not by the physical act you see .... but rather by the act of obedience that you perform. In baptism you are identifying with the death and resurrection of Christ.
 

UncleAbee

Member
I disagree. The passage clearly says "baptism now saves you." That is the object of the passage. The words that follow explain the passage "baptism now saves you" works. We are saved in the waters of baptism ..... not by the physical act you see .... but rather by the act of obedience that you perform. In baptism you are identifying with the death and resurrection of Christ. According to 1 Peter 3:21 no one is saved until they get baptized.
 

UncleAbee

Member
Baptism is a ritual of faith: if those who are baptised don't have faith, then baptism is pointless. However, baptism is the means which Christ established to bring people (ordinarily) into his covenant.
Two things. 1) Where does the bible call baptism a "ritual of faith?" 2) If one can't get into Christ's covenant without baptism then doesn't that make baptism necessary?
 
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