Baptism is a rite, not salvation !

Thistle

Well-known member
Because He said, "I must do all that is good."
Yes, and remember John's baptism was a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" [Mark 1:4]. Jesus was baptized for our repentance and our sins. And like the High Priest on the Day of Atonement, John laid his hand of Jesus in baptism and transferred all of our sins to Jesus, then sending Jesus into the wilderness like the Azazel goat, to be tempted of Satan and to carry our sins to the cross. That was the cross work of Christ, and it started at his baptism.
 

Newbirth

Active member
...Except I'm telling the truth according to Scripture.

Rev. 20 :14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Future event.
sometimes I have to laugh... was there not a resurrection before that sir?...didn't all the dead come out from where they were? If they came out how would it be still full? They came out and were thrown back in a second time...
Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
 

robycop3

Active member
sometimes I have to laugh... was there not a resurrection before that sir?...didn't all the dead come out from where they were? If they came out how would it be still full? They came out and were thrown back in a second time...
Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
No, the only one now permanently resurrected is Jesus. No other permanent ones have yet occurred.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
The word 'baptized' is mentioned twice, 'baptism" once, in Romans chapter six. He nowhere in those verses and, in fact, in all of this chapter, mentioned the necessity of baptism unto salvation. Further, there is not a hint of water being used.

We are baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not by the baptism of John. There is a difference.
The problem with your Rom ch 6 argument is that not only doesn't it say "water" baptism but it doesn't say or hint at "Holy Spirit" baptism either. So, how do we know which baptism is being referred to? We know this by reading all the other passages on baptism in the NT. If you do this then you notice a pattern. This pattern is that baptism is always water baptism unless the context says otherwise. This is how we know that baptism in Rom 6, Acts 2:38, Gal 3:27, Acts 2:38, etc is water baptism. In the same we know that Matt 3:11, Mark 1:8, Mark 10:38, etc is not. Baptism has always been commonly identified with water. Therefore the writers have to tell you when water is not involved.
 
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Thistle

Well-known member
@nan: "The word 'baptized' is mentioned twice, 'baptism" once, in Romans chapter six. He nowhere in those verses and, in fact, in all of this chapter, mentioned the necessity of baptism unto salvation. Further, there is not a hint of water being used.

We are baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not by the baptism of John. There is a difference."
The problem with your Rom ch 6 argument is that not only doesn't it say "water" baptism but it doesn't say or hint at "Holy Spirit" baptism either. So, how do we know which baptism is being referred to? We know this by reading all the other passages on baptism in the NT. If you do this then you notice a pattern. This pattern is that baptism is always water baptism unless the context says otherwise. This is how we know that baptism in Rom 6, Acts 2:38, Gal 3:27, Acts 2:38, etc is water baptism. In the same we know that Matt 3:11, Mark 1:8, Mark 10:38, etc is not. Baptism has always been commonly identified with water. Therefore the writers have to tell you when water is not involved.
@nan, I have to agree with @UncleAbee. Romans 6 very clearly in the syntax of the passage identify baptism as the moment of salvation; note as follows:

"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? ... for he who has died is freed from sin." - Romans 6:3, 7 NASB
When and where do we die to sin? Paul says in baptism. What is the result, freedom from sin? That is the gift of grace we call redemption. Paul could have defined this free from sin group by belief, or confession, or repentance, but he didn't he chose baptism here. Why? Belief, confession and repentance ultimately comprises the content of living the Christian life, where baptism happens at the moment it all starts.

To your second point, what you might call Spirit Baptism, is just the spiritual dimension of the temporal ceremony. Baptism is a "work of God" [Colossians 2:12].
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Remember, baptism is the public expression of one's committment to Jesus.

The Bible never says such a thing. This is a fabricated notion.

It does NOT wash away one's sins !

Scripture does say one's sins are washed away via water baptism.

There seems to be a lot of people who don't like what it says.

If one is saved & dies unbaptized, that one is still saved. Jesus gave us the example of the repentant thief on the cross. However, one SHOULD be baptized after salvation, if at all possible. I, & many others, were EAGER to be baptized ASAP after salvation.

So, one's mind should be at ease if one is saved, but unable to be baptized for awhile, if at all. Sometimes, it's not possible for awhile if one is saved in wintertime & one's church has no indoor natatorium. Others may be in a landwhere there's no suitable place for baptism, or there's no one available to do it. Others may have a physical condition making it impossible for them to be immersed in water. But GOD knows whether baptism is possible or not.

The rubber meets the road on Judgment Day. The Judge does know how to judge.

But don't worry if you have a terminal illness, are saved, but are unable to be baptized for awhile. You're JUST-AS-SAVED if you die first. It's JESUS who does the saving, not the water or he who baptizes one.
 

robycop3

Active member
The Bible never says such a thing. This is a fabricated notion.



Scripture does say one's sins are washed away via water baptism.

There seems to be a lot of people who don't like what it says.



The rubber meets the road on Judgment Day. The Judge does know how to judge.
The Bible never says such a thing. This is a fabricated notion.



Scripture does say one's sins are washed away via water baptism.

There seems to be a lot of people who don't like what it says.



The rubber meets the road on Judgment Day. The Judge does know how to judge.
You may serve any god you wish. That's between you and THE God.
 

Newbirth

Active member
The word 'baptized' is mentioned twice, 'baptism" once, in Romans chapter six. He nowhere in those verses and, in fact, in all of this chapter, mentioned the necessity of baptism unto salvation. Further, there is not a hint of water being used.

We are baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not by the baptism of John. There is a difference.
that is a cop out...this should wipe away your doubts...
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

He believed and was baptized...plain and simple...If you have a problem take it up with Philip...
 

nan

Well-known member
that is a cop out...this should wipe away your doubts...
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

He believed and was baptized...plain and simple...If you have a problem take it up with Philip...
Read it again. Water baptism takes place after one believes. Belief is what saves you. Not baptism.
 

Newbirth

Active member
Read it again. Water baptism takes place after one believes. Belief is what saves you. Not baptism.

belief is faith nan.... faith without works is dead... James explains this...
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Devils also believe nan are devils saved ?19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Your argument is that belief/faith alone saves ...the scripture disagrees with you.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What is the criteria to be saved in Mark 16:16...does it say believe alone?
 

Newbirth

Active member
So the circular reasoning begins again...Nan will ask, what condemns a person? Nan forgot all have sinned therefore all are already condemned before even hearing about Jesus...
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
 

nan

Well-known member
belief is faith nan.... faith without works is dead... James explains this...
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
We were discussing water baptism (#555). Please address my post.
 

nan

Well-known member
So the circular reasoning begins again...Nan will ask, what condemns a person? Nan forgot all have sinned therefore all are already condemned before even hearing about Jesus...
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Is it too much to ask you to focus on Mark 16:16?

According to that verse, what is it that condemns a person?

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Where do you see anything except unbelief that condemns?
 
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